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Author Topic: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage  (Read 4368 times)

Annie Roonie

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2012, 09:50:35 pm »
Quote from: Altair;53714

YAAAAY!!! [O show he's got principle and is willing to lead]...




Long strategy, not presidential strategy, humanity strategy. If he wanted the bell to ring in that arena, he had to do it before November. He may not want to sacrifice an election, but that he is willing to do so in order to do the compassionate thing bodes better for all IMO. That's inspiring. Feels honorable and brave.

He has energized his base again big time.

He has caused black ministers to examine their ... coffers I'll bet.  The first ones to send the invitations will be the ones that survive, and added bonus, they can lay claim to the love. If I had a center fielder's arm I could throw a ball and hit any of four parishes that are sorely in need of parishioners from my front porch and probably triple that number of lgbt folks who want to feel welcome again at church.

When I read the transcripts I sighed in relief. He pointed out the inevitable when he illustrated that his little girls aren't worried or frightened. It's just not an issue for them. Even the most steadfast opponent would know the cowardice they own after hearing that, hates it but knows it. Now it is just a matter of some folks dying and other folks being born.

Immediate election wise, he's given the right their issue instead of being handed one. The GOP has tried and tried to distance themselves from their vocal fringe of hatefulness and willful ignorance. Obama has in effect stapled it to their face. It could be amusing to see how they attempt to remove it. Given some of the eloquence the right has demonstrated, they may need rhinoplasty afterward.

Just my several cents. I'm all about the YAY! on this one.

Altair

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2012, 10:03:27 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;53998
It'll be interesting to see if this statement holds true.  My understanding is there's a pretty strong streak of social conservatism in the black community.  From what I've read, the exit polls in CA in 2008 had as much as 70% of black voters backing prop 8.   On the other hand, Obama galvanized the black voting bloc like nobody else, so there's something to be said about black people being so strong in solidarity.


There's been a divergence between African American secular leaders and the churched Af Am population (which is a big part--a definite majority--of the general Af Am population) on the issue of same-sex marriage for a while now. So Obama's stand isn't anything we haven't seen in our leaders before.

Moreover, while many African Americans are opposed to same-sex marriage, it's not a "voting issue" for them--a single issue that transcends all others in their consideration of a candidate, as, say, abortion is for conservative Catholics. It just doesn't rate in the face of the first black president, a president the vast majority of us think is doing a good job.

Don't you get how much Obama means to us?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
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MadZealot

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2012, 10:49:58 pm »
Quote from: Altair;54005
There's been a divergence between African American secular leaders and the churched Af Am population (which is a big part--a definite majority--of the general Af Am population) on the issue of same-sex marriage for a while now. So Obama's stand isn't anything we haven't seen in our leaders before.

Aaaah... didn't know that.  Then again all I have to work with is an outsider's POV.

Quote
Moreover, while many African Americans are opposed to same-sex marriage, it's not a "voting issue" for them--a single issue that transcends all others in their consideration of a candidate, as, say, abortion is for conservative Catholics.

I've known people who base their vote chiefly on a candidate's position on abortion, so I know what you're talking about.  

Quote
It just doesn't rate in the face of the first black president, a president the vast majority of us think is doing a good job.

I know that blacks turned out in record numbers to vote for a man they thought of as their brother.  Wouldn't surprise me if it happened again.  
This begs a question: how much black involvement can be attributed to there being a black man in the Office, and how much can be attributed to the other issues which should command a voter's attention... such as the economy?   The ongoing war?
Does that 'brotherly tie' make you more forgiving?  

Quote
Don't you get how much Obama means to us?

I think I'm getting it.  :D:
I understand that he is First Black President.  And given our nation's history that is one hell of a First.  There's not a First Hispanic president, not a first Woman President; he beat out all the other potential Firsts.
His election was not an end to racism, but it was a victory that knocked down some serious walls (consider that he wouldn't have gotten there without a LOT of white votes.  Talk about a paradigm shift, the change from even 20 years ago.)
I know that black folks feel that brotherly tie to him.  Being a racial mutt, I don't have that kind of ethnic tie to a person, nor even a myth of such, so I don't know what that feels like.  
As an aside: he's only half black.  He could just as easily have been the nation's 44th White President.  (yes, I'm just fucking with you here.)  
 
All this begs another question:  regarding what he means to your community, would you say you venerate him for the Man He Is, or for the myth of What He Represents?  Both perceptions have merit in their own right, and I daresay the history books might well remember him for the latter... not to say that's a bad thing.  Time will tell whether the Man lives up to the Myth.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Altair

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2012, 10:55:37 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;54001
You really need to work on articulating your sentiment, there.   :whis:


I mean, honestly. The sitting President of the United States endorses the Big Prize of the gay civil rights movement, at considerable political risk to himself. If you're from the opposing party, if you truly support same-sex marriage, the appropriate response is a nod of acknowledgment. Instead, the gay Republicans concoct a reason to whine...while the candidate from their party would write discrimination against us into the U.S. Constitution, on this very issue.

Pathological self-loathing doesn't even begin to cover it.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2012, 10:59:34 pm »
Quote from: Altair;54011
I mean, honestly. The sitting President of the United States endorses the Big Prize of the gay civil rights movement, at considerable political risk to himself. If you're from the opposing party, if you truly support same-sex marriage, the appropriate response is a nod of acknowledgment. Instead, the gay Republicans concoct a reason to whine...while the candidate from their party would write discrimination against us into the U.S. Constitution, on this very issue.

Pathological self-loathing doesn't even begin to cover it.

I know... just effing with you.  :)

Hell, even I said 'Good job' when Barry "came out."
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:00:22 pm by MadZealot »
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2012, 11:10:41 pm »
Quote from: Altair;54005


Don't you get how much Obama means to us?


I know this wasn't directed at me, but I want to respond and ask forgiveness for the intrusion.

I don't think everybody can get how much he means. I wouldn't have even had a glimpse had I not worked with young black men for years prior to Obama's presidency.

I finally understood on more than an abstract level the day after he was elected. I was having the typical "you can do this" pep talk with a risky young man. Previously these had always ended with a quick look away from us both and a quick change of topic. (I've seen parents and grandparents do this same brief gesture too.) But after on that day, neither of us looked away. We let the silence fall and faced each other's eyes with determination. I almost cried when I realized that all the time we had been looking away was because we were actively and physically ignoring the doubt and fear that centuries had instilled in us both. It was never spoken and it only took a split second of our time, but it was a palpable subtle hit every time. But on that day, some thing real had happened and it allowed us to believe not in a whisper and not just with hope. It felt like there were hundreds of souls around us in that silence.

I don't look away anymore and seldom do the young men unless my breath is hot. I don't see parents do it much anymore either, but sometimes grandparents still do. It's an unconscious thing mostly.

It's difficult to express the enormity of what his presidency means to me, so I can only begin to fathom what it means to my kiddos. And for sure, getting my family to understand it beyond the abstract has proven near impossible. Luckily, they're convinced already without feeling it.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2012, 11:22:10 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;54015

 I almost cried when I realized that all the time we had been looking away was because we were actively and physically ignoring the doubt and fear that centuries had instilled in us both.


Just wanted to be clear that this doubt and fear was not in the young man but in the country, the world even.

Altair

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2012, 10:30:48 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;54012
I know... just effing with you.  :)



I know you were. But your post gave me another opportunity to rail against them, and I couldn't resist!
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Altair

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Re: Pres of u.s. Endorses same-sex marriage
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2012, 11:01:27 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;54009

This begs a question: how much black involvement can be attributed to there being a black man in the Office, and how much can be attributed to the other issues which should command a voter's attention... such as the economy?   The ongoing war?
Does that 'brotherly tie' make you more forgiving?



A bit. Keep in mind that black voters aren't just voting for Obama because he's got our skin color; that would be rather shallow. It's what his being president represents for us as a community: that we are an integral part of the American fabric, and not just as bellboys and nannies and shoeshine guys, but as the leader of the free world; that a people all too often consigned to criminal and menial and lesser status--all too often by our own internalization of the poisonous racism that still permeates American life--can aspire to absolutely anything.

Annie Roonie's moving post really begins to speak to that.

And it's something I never, ever thought I would see in my lifetime. (If someone had told me only 10 years ago that a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama would be elected president of the United States, I would have laughed in their face and advised them to increase the dosage of their antipsychotic.) I had to pinch myself on election night when the race was called in his favor. Black bigwigs from Jesse Jackson to Oprah Winfrey were openly weeping.

That's what Obama means to us. Even for blacks who adamantly oppose same-sex marriage, that is a trifling in the face of that. So you can expect O's African American support to remain rock-solid.

Quote

All this begs another question:  regarding what he means to your community, would you say you venerate him for the Man He Is, or for the myth of What He Represents?  Both perceptions have merit in their own right, and I daresay the history books might well remember him for the latter... not to say that's a bad thing.  Time will tell whether the Man lives up to the Myth.


Obviously from the above, the Myth of What He Represents is a big factor. But because Obama articulates a vision of unity and hope--and articulates it so well--and has delivered on so many core Democratic principles, the Man He Is plays an equal role. If Colin Powell were prez, for example, I don't think you'd see the same level of devotion, even though he'd step into the same Myth of What He Represents. So I'd say it's 50-50.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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