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Author Topic: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?  (Read 1546 times)

Allaya

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2021, 08:47:41 am »
I'm okay with that - at least to the extent that people who aren't right-wing white dudes also have their dietary requirements accommodated that quickly. Far too often, those who have sensitivities, religious/cultural/ethical requirements, etc, are not accommodated, or not without extended legal battles, and have their requirements dismissed as 'bullshit'. Sure, sometimes they might well be bullshit - but I don't see any way to judge what is and what isn't without having far too many petitions for accommodation denied not because their legitimacy has been scrutinized and found insufficient, but because someone with some power doesn't like the prisoner's skin color or religion or politics.

I'm fairly confident that Angeli is a sincere flake; I don't think he's making dietary demands so that he can later point to how 'coddled' he was in jail. (I'd personally still be okay with it if he was; when right-wing types object to 'coddling', they generally mean 'prisoners being treated as if they were human beings' - and I feel very strongly that prisoners should be treated like human beings.)

Now, if all you're actually doing is rolling your eyes at yet another manifestation of his flakiness, I'm with you there.

Sunflower

I'm significantly less okay with it than you.

Given my understanding of the way budgeting is done in these sorts of facilities, having to purchase organic produce in small batches (vs. ordinary food bought in bulk) from their approved vendor is going to take a not-insignificant bite out of the funds used to feed the rest of the folks being kept there. And those folks are already being fed the cheapest food possible because nobody wants to spend good money on bad peopleTM.

So unless Sir Roadkill is being billed for the difference, his "special shaman diet" is impacting other people besides himself.
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Aisling

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2021, 09:19:05 am »
"I was just following orders" wasn't a valid defense then, and it isn't one now.

Ah yes, the rallying cry of arrested jackboots throughout history.  No, it does not hold water. 

They won't follow mask mandates, but they're just following orders when it comes to an armed insurrection.  Yeah, right. 
"All your questions can be answered, if that is what you want.
But once you learn your answers, you can never unlearn them."
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American Gods

Darkhawk

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2021, 02:04:40 pm »
I'm okay with that - at least to the extent that people who aren't right-wing white dudes also have their dietary requirements accommodated that quickly. Far too often, those who have sensitivities, religious/cultural/ethical requirements, etc, are not accommodated, or not without extended legal battles, and have their requirements dismissed as 'bullshit'.

Unfortunately this comes across to me as "the white guy with upper-middle-class sensibilities about food gets an accomodation, the Muslims in jail don't, same shit, different day".  Because "to the extent that" is frequently "not at all", see also the people who have been posting this story next to the "Muslim prisoners given the choice between pork meals and rotten meals" headlines....
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2021, 02:16:01 am »
Unfortunately this comes across to me as "the white guy with upper-middle-class sensibilities about food gets an accomodation, the Muslims in jail don't, same shit, different day".  Because "to the extent that" is frequently "not at all", see also the people who have been posting this story next to the "Muslim prisoners given the choice between pork meals and rotten meals" headlines....

Actually, it occurs to me (only now--D'OH!) that if there's any group who might know a broad range of the religious dietary requirements of legit modern-day shamans, it's the folks here.

So putting mere preference aside, is anyone aware of a shamanic practice where eating organic is a religious requirement, the way that not eating pork is for observant Muslims and keeping kosher is for observant Jews?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

SunflowerP

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2021, 05:13:39 pm »
I'm significantly less okay with it than you.

Given my understanding of the way budgeting is done in these sorts of facilities, having to purchase organic produce in small batches (vs. ordinary food bought in bulk) from their approved vendor is going to take a not-insignificant bite out of the funds used to feed the rest of the folks being kept there. And those folks are already being fed the cheapest food possible because nobody wants to spend good money on bad peopleTM.

So unless Sir Roadkill is being billed for the difference, his "special shaman diet" is impacting other people besides himself.

Unfortunately this comes across to me as "the white guy with upper-middle-class sensibilities about food gets an accomodation, the Muslims in jail don't, same shit, different day".  Because "to the extent that" is frequently "not at all", see also the people who have been posting this story next to the "Muslim prisoners given the choice between pork meals and rotten meals" headlines....

Good points, and, alas, too true. I can see that I came across 'all prisoners' rights matter!' in the face of the rights of Black, Indigenous, Muslim, etc, prisoners' rights not being respected in practice. I won't say, 'that wasn't what I intended,' because anyone who knows me at all well likely realizes I didn't, and because intent isn't magic. So I'll just say I recognize my screwup, and will strive to be more careful.

Sunflower
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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2021, 07:52:03 pm »
So putting mere preference aside, is anyone aware of a shamanic practice where eating organic is a religious requirement, the way that not eating pork is for observant Muslims and keeping kosher is for observant Jews?

My familiarity with the habits of the more neopagan end of shamanistic practitioners is that their strictures are basically geasa, and, like geasa, can be on any damn thing the gods and spirits demand.

Aside from that, I'm not personally okay with passing judgement on the legitimacy of other people's religious food strictures.  I live with someone who has a religious food stricture against potatoes because of his Celtic mysticism and UPG about the Irish potato famine; just because I suspect this is a super uncommon thing doesn't mean it's not a real religious restriction for him.
as the water grinds the stone
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2021, 07:08:12 pm »
So unless Sir Roadkill is being billed for the difference, his "special shaman diet" is impacting other people besides himself.

Update: Turns out this was at least partly untrue (A judge didn't actually order whats-his-horns to be given an organic diet.) No word on what he's actually being fed, but I doubt it's Nutraloaf.

Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2021, 09:27:38 am »
Aside from that, I'm not personally okay with passing judgement on the legitimacy of other people's religious food strictures.  I live with someone who has a religious food stricture against potatoes because of his Celtic mysticism and UPG about the Irish potato famine; just because I suspect this is a super uncommon thing doesn't mean it's not a real religious restriction for him.

Folks' religious strictures are their business, as far as I'm concerned; heck, folks look at me sideways when I explain that I can't set foot indoors during daylight hours on the summer solstice, because it's not exactly a widespread spiritual practice.

The problem in this case for me isn't the religious food stricture per se, but such strictures in the context of the criminal justice system. It would be unwieldy impossible to cater to every inmate's personalized religious dietary restrictions, not the least because there's zero mechanism for distinguishing an actual sincerely held unique dietary restriction from one that's just a personal preference concocted from thin air.

Religious demands for strict diets consisting solely of lobster and beluga caviar would abound. Not feasible.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2021, 12:44:20 pm »
His defense? To paraphrase what his lawyer articulated on Chris Cuomo's CNN show and in this Washington Post article: 'The President made me do it'

"I was just following orders" wasn't a valid defense then, and it isn't one now.

Now that he didn't get the pardon he craved from Trump, Jacob Chansley feels he was duped by the now ex-presidential huckster:

https://www.ksdk.com/amp/article/news/investigations/capitol-rioters-express-regret-for-participating-in-unrest-after-not-getting-a-pardon-from-president-trump/63-7a04e9f1-4f72-4704-bd79-0e0ca09c1552

The most delicious retort came in the form of a tweet (ironically the now ex-presidential huckster's once fave form of communication, until he was banned) from someone named David Simon:

"Oh come on. What self-respecting conjurer and holy man fails to peer into the deepest truths of existence?  Buck up, you mystical motherfucker. You can’t be duped. You are a shaman.  You wear the horns. Now do the damn thing."

LMFAO!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 12:46:35 pm by Altair »
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

SunflowerP

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 04:09:37 pm »
The most delicious retort....

That's delicious, all right, but so's what Native Americans have to say about him (there's some other stuff in the video as well, but Jake the Flake is the main focus of this episode):



Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2021, 07:17:41 pm »
That's delicious, all right, but so's what Native Americans have to say about him (there's some other stuff in the video as well, but Jake the Flake is the main focus of this episode):



Sunflower

BEST:
"When the peyote wears off and you're trying to figure out where you are"
"Dances With Karens"
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

PerditaPickle

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2021, 08:09:40 am »
That's delicious, all right, but so's what Native Americans have to say about him (there's some other stuff in the video as well, but Jake the Flake is the main focus of this episode):

Worth watching the whole thing, I found the last segment really interesting.

BEST:
"When the peyote wears off and you're trying to figure out where you are"
"Dances With Karens"

Those are good, but as a fan of Terry Pratchett's Discworld the one that made my guffaw out loud was "Who's the dude selling cheese fries in the middle of all this"!
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

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