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Author Topic: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?  (Read 793 times)

Altair

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Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« on: January 08, 2021, 11:25:06 am »
The US citizens among us, and I'd guess others as well, are still in shock from what happened on Wednesday, a shameful low point in the nation's political history and yet entirely predictable given the constant drumbeat of sore-loser delusion and right-wing resentment since the election. The storming of the US Capitol by Trump's brownshirt thugs was not only consistent with the last 4 years, but a fitting coda to the tenure of the worst president in US history.

Prominent among the thugs was Jake Angeli of Arizona, who goes by "Q Shaman", dressed in furs and a horned hat. The nickname, along with his tattoos, leaves me wondering...is this guy a pagan?

I recognized one of his tattoos as the walknot, and another looks like it might be Thor's hammer (or else a Klingon Bird of Prey warship in silhouette  ;) )--both symbols for Norse paganism/heathenism. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this guy was one of those racist Neo-Völkisch types, but tattoos are scant evidence to go on.

According to the UK's Independent:
Quote
Mr Angeli has called himself a "multi-dimensional or hyper dimensional being" and claims he can "see into these other higher dimensions..."

Can anyone identify any of his other tattoos? Is this a pagan insurrectionist? Or just someone coopting the iconography?

Photos and more info on him here:
https://www.michigansthumb.com/news/editorspicks/article/q-shaman-us-capitol-antifa-matt-gaetz-15852663.php

« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 11:27:24 am by Altair »
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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 02:01:41 pm »
Can anyone identify any of his other tattoos? Is this a pagan insurrectionist? Or just someone coopting the iconography?

At a quick glance, I'm inclined to agree that there's a valknut and Mjölnir. The tat between those two appears to be a representation of Yggdrasil.

I believe the circles on his arms are norse/heathen associated as well, but I'm having a brain fail on the meaning.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this guy was one of those racist Neo-Völkisch types

I think that's a safe assumption, all things considered.
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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2021, 02:37:11 pm »

Can anyone identify any of his other tattoos? Is this a pagan insurrectionist? Or just someone coopting the iconography?


I've seen a lot of upset about him (and his tattoos) in my Heathen groups...a lot of desire to separate him and what he is doing from the rest of us and what we believe and do.

My thoughts are that it doesn't matter what group you are talking about, there will always be people who think they are part of said group...but are also somewhat insane.  They will take their version of a practice, belief or symbol and they will be loud about what it means to them. 

The big problem is that the 'average' person (aka someone who is outside of the group in question) tends to know nothing about the group and what it believes.  So they see someone saying crazy stuff or doing crazy things...and now they think that the whole group thinks the same way and wants to do the same things. 

So, while this person might believe they are a part of Pagan/Heathen ideology, I don't personally feel they qualify.  For me, this falls into the category of "anyone can identify as whatever title they think they are...but that doesn't mean that other people have to recognize them as the thing they want to be known as."  It's a sort of touchy subject, because it does lead to discussions of validity and the right to claim certain titles. 
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Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2021, 08:28:23 pm »
I've seen a lot of upset about him (and his tattoos) in my Heathen groups...a lot of desire to separate him and what he is doing from the rest of us and what we believe and do.

My thoughts are that it doesn't matter what group you are talking about, there will always be people who think they are part of said group...but are also somewhat insane.  They will take their version of a practice, belief or symbol and they will be loud about what it means to them. 

The big problem is that the 'average' person (aka someone who is outside of the group in question) tends to know nothing about the group and what it believes.  So they see someone saying crazy stuff or doing crazy things...and now they think that the whole group thinks the same way and wants to do the same things. 

So, while this person might believe they are a part of Pagan/Heathen ideology, I don't personally feel they qualify.  For me, this falls into the category of "anyone can identify as whatever title they think they are...but that doesn't mean that other people have to recognize them as the thing they want to be known as."  It's a sort of touchy subject, because it does lead to discussions of validity and the right to claim certain titles.

Well said, and I by no means was implying that this guy has legitimacy as a Heathen/Asatruar; I was wondering whether he considers himself as Heathen/Asatruar at all, or if he just purloined a bunch of symbols he doesn't really understand.

Now that I think about it, it could be both.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
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Aisling

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2021, 09:53:48 pm »
Now that I think about it, it could be both.

Just saw this on the Wild Hunt:  Heathens respond to “Q-Shaman” and Norse Imagery in Capitol Riot.   

The more I read about him, the more I think his religious path is special snowflake.

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2021, 11:34:16 pm »
I recognized one of his tattoos as the walknot, and another looks like it might be Thor's hammer (or else a Klingon Bird of Prey warship in silhouette  ;) )--both symbols for Norse paganism/heathenism. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this guy was one of those racist Neo-Völkisch types, but tattoos are scant evidence to go on.

That extensive a set of tattoos is a solid tell for the Nazi-Odinist end of the pool, though; the not-folkish heathens tend to warn each other off doing that sort of thing.

I just can't see pics of that guy without remembering all the heathens who have commented that the valknut, as a pledge to Odin, basically means 'insert spear here'.  He got good placement, huh.
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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2021, 12:42:08 am »
I was wondering whether he considers himself as Heathen/Asatruar at all

I don't think he does. He's been photo'd holding up signs saying, among other pablum, "God wins." Not what you'd expect a heathen to say.

More likely, he's wearing those symbols to advertise his white racist cuntery. The Valknut and the Hammer have both been stolen by those shitbag groups-- possibly the vilest form of cultural appropriations. Also, while in the Capitol, he was photo'd alongside another Aryan asshole.
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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2021, 01:24:36 am »
Well said, and I by no means was implying that this guy has legitimacy as a Heathen/Asatruar; I was wondering whether he considers himself as Heathen/Asatruar at all, or if he just purloined a bunch of symbols he doesn't really understand.

Now that I think about it, it could be both.

Yes. The NeoPagan movement as a whole is heavily built on laying claim to various symbols which the claimants may or may not understand well.

From the article on TWH that Aisling linked:
Quote
He also described himself as “a shamanic practitioner and energetic healer. I have been on the shamanic path for over a decade and have numerous different capabilities and gifts at my disposal.”

If we saw that in someone's intro post here on TC, we wouldn't think twice about it (we might not even say anything about the issues surrounding use of the word 'shaman' or link to the Inclusivity FAQ, since in that particular quote he doesn't explicitly claim to be a shaman). It's an entirely ordinary way in which someone who has studied (for whatever value of 'study' might be involved) Harnerian 'core shamanism' to describe themselves - not even the kind of 'most powerful magician in the room' braggadocio we sometimes see in intros.

Whether Jake Angeli is serious in speaking of himself that way, or if it's just part of his performance art, is anyone's guess - but he's not just inventing that part of the performance art from whole cloth; if he hadn't associated himself so strongly with QAnon, Trumpism, etc, he'd be hard to distinguish from any other sloppy eclectic with a taste for pagan/New Age cosplay.

Not that he's always that restrained in his self-descriptions, as the quote you give from the Independent illustrates; that's much more 'most powerful mage in the room'.

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Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2021, 02:40:44 am »
Just saw this on the Wild Hunt:  Heathens respond to “Q-Shaman” and Norse Imagery in Capitol Riot.   

The more I read about him, the more I think his religious path is special snowflake.

Thanks for the article; this guy seems aware of certain Heathen/Asatru aspects but doesn't seem to identify as such; just harnessing them to his likely racist ideology.

The best line from the article:
Quote
Schreiwer also noted that Angeli’s outfit “looked like the Heathen version of [the musical] Cats"
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2021, 03:44:26 pm »
Thanks for the article; this guy seems aware of certain Heathen/Asatru aspects but doesn't seem to identify as such; just harnessing them to his likely racist ideology.

Arrested!
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/three-men-charged-connection-events-us-capitol

And people outside the pagan community are beginning to take notice of the symbols he uses:
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2021, 08:09:31 pm »
Arrested!

Yay!

Quote
And people outside the pagan community are beginning to take notice of the symbols he uses:

I am particularly pleased that Kim Kelly emphasized, 'These Norse symbols aren’t inherently fascist, but when they show up ON a fascist, it’s for a reason.' Exactly right, IMO.

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Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2021, 08:07:17 pm »
Prominent among the thugs was Jake Angeli of Arizona, who goes by "Q Shaman", dressed in furs and a horned hat. The nickname, along with his tattoos, leaves me wondering...is this guy a pagan?

And now that he's in jail comes this load of bullshit:

Jake Angeli Will Be Fed Organic Shaman Diet Following Judge's Order: Report
https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-shaman-organic-diet-jake-angeli-1560754
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2021, 06:23:38 pm »
And now that he's in jail comes this load of bullshit:

Jake Angeli Will Be Fed Organic Shaman Diet Following Judge's Order: Report
https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-shaman-organic-diet-jake-angeli-1560754

Are they free-range grass-fed shamans though?

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 04:45:28 pm »
And now that he's in jail comes this load of bullshit:

I'm okay with that - at least to the extent that people who aren't right-wing white dudes also have their dietary requirements accommodated that quickly. Far too often, those who have sensitivities, religious/cultural/ethical requirements, etc, are not accommodated, or not without extended legal battles, and have their requirements dismissed as 'bullshit'. Sure, sometimes they might well be bullshit - but I don't see any way to judge what is and what isn't without having far too many petitions for accommodation denied not because their legitimacy has been scrutinized and found insufficient, but because someone with some power doesn't like the prisoner's skin color or religion or politics.

I'm fairly confident that Angeli is a sincere flake; I don't think he's making dietary demands so that he can later point to how 'coddled' he was in jail. (I'd personally still be okay with it if he was; when right-wing types object to 'coddling', they generally mean 'prisoners being treated as if they were human beings' - and I feel very strongly that prisoners should be treated like human beings.)

Now, if all you're actually doing is rolling your eyes at yet another manifestation of his flakiness, I'm with you there.

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Altair

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Re: Pagan Traitor Storms the US Capitol?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2021, 08:10:00 am »
Arrested!


His defense? To paraphrase what his lawyer articulated on Chris Cuomo's CNN show and in this Washington Post article: 'The President made me do it'

Quote
In an earlier a statement to The Washington Post, St. Louis lawyer Albert S. Watkins said he had been retained as Chansley’s attorney and called for President Trump to pardon him.

Watkins claimed that Chansley acted in a “peaceful and compliant fashion” toward law enforcement and was cooperating with their investigation. Besides, he argued, the Arizona man only went to the Capitol because he was following Trump’s invitation.

“He took seriously the countless messages of President Trump. He believed in President Trump,” Watkins said. “Like tens of millions of other Americans, Chansley felt — for the first time in his life — as though his voice was being heard.”

"I was just following orders" wasn't a valid defense then, and it isn't one now.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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