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Author Topic: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown  (Read 9259 times)

sailor

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ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« on: April 09, 2012, 08:29:26 am »
If ObamaCare is upheld as written, will that be good for you?  bad for you? you don't know?

At present the only plus I think for me, is it would keep my daughter on my insurance until she is 25.

For others, it might not be so good. An example is North Carolina state employees who will be mandated to buy family coverage, but will not be eligible for any of the subsidies from the Exchanges.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/192035-states-worried-theyll-bear-the-brunt-of-anger-over-health-laws-shortcomings

Quote
One key shortcoming is found in the law's subsidies for people who don’t have access to affordable coverage through their employer. As The Hill first reported in July, the law links the subsidies to the cost of coverage for a single employee. If that coverage is found to be affordable, the individual does not qualify for subsidies in the state health exchanges.

But the determination is based on the single-employee rate regardless of whether the individual has a spouse and/or children — meaning that someone could end up disqualified from the federal assistance yet unable to afford the family coverage that an employer offers.

Celtag

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 11:37:19 am »
Quote from: sailor;49386
If ObamaCare is upheld as written, will that be good for you?  bad for you? you don't know?

At present the only plus I think for me, is it would keep my daughter on my insurance until she is 25.

For others, it might not be so good. An example is North Carolina state employees who will be mandated to buy family coverage, but will not be eligible for any of the subsidies from the Exchanges.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/192035-states-worried-theyll-bear-the-brunt-of-anger-over-health-laws-shortcomings
For me it won't make much of a difference as long as I have my job. But if I were to lose my job, then things might get tricky if it is overturned, because I have a butt load of preexisting conditions and with out the bill I won't be able to get insured unless I'm on a group plan through my work. I don't like the mandate, but there are several things in the bill i do like.
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yewberry

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 11:51:00 am »
Quote from: Celtag;49402
For me it won't make much of a difference as long as I have my job. But if I were to lose my job, then things might get tricky if it is overturned, because I have a butt load of preexisting conditions and with out the bill I won't be able to get insured unless I'm on a group plan through my work. I don't like the mandate, but there are several things in the bill i do like.


Pretty much ditto what you said.  I've also got a 22-year-old son who is still on my insurance, and there's absolutely no way he could afford to buy an individual policy at this point.

Oh, and my state's low-income health care system has been gutted due to budget shortfalls and property tax erosion and is accepting (last I heard) no new members.

Brina

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 03:00:44 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;49404
Pretty much ditto what you said.  I've also got a 22-year-old son who is still on my insurance, and there's absolutely no way he could afford to buy an individual policy at this point.

Oh, and my state's low-income health care system has been gutted due to budget shortfalls and property tax erosion and is accepting (last I heard) no new members.

Brina

 
Without the medicare option, it has always worried me.  I see it as one of those things that I would, as usual, not be able to afford without really scrimping (I'm 53, insurance wouldn't be cheap), but not be low income enough to get help.  fortunately for me personally, I am marrying a military veteran in June and will be on as a spouse.  Much cheaper than standard insurance.

I worry about both my children affording it - health insurance is more than car insurance by a long shot!  The way it is set up, while it helps those with existing conditions, it is going to force a lot of people who cannot really afford it to give the insurance companies money.

What I would like to see is a single payer set up like the other industrialized nations - but the insurance companies will never let that happen.
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sailor

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:32:40 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;49402
For me it won't make much of a difference as long as I have my job. But if I were to lose my job, then things might get tricky if it is overturned, because I have a butt load of preexisting conditions and with out the bill I won't be able to get insured unless I'm on a group plan through my work. I don't like the mandate, but there are several things in the bill i do like.

 
I thought the pre-existing condition rules are from Clinton with the Health Care Portability
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act

Haven't read the entire article, but the downside was you would need to continue coverage to get insured again.

sailor

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 06:38:39 pm »
Quote from: Owl;49418
Without the medicare option, it has always worried me.  I see it as one of those things that I would, as usual, not be able to afford without really scrimping (I'm 53, insurance wouldn't be cheap), but not be low income enough to get help.  fortunately for me personally, I am marrying a military veteran in June and will be on as a spouse.  Much cheaper than standard insurance.


 
Expect your Tri-Care rates to go up in next few years.

And just hope they don't check-valve the two of you out of Tri-Care or mandate taking insurance from any job you (as spouse in particular) get.  Military is looking at cutting costs big time.  Those two would likely be politically popular for non-combat / non-line of duty injuries.

MadZealot

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 08:12:06 pm »
Quote from: sailor;49386
If ObamaCare is upheld as written, will that be good for you?  bad for you? you don't know?

At present the only plus I think for me, is it would keep my daughter on my insurance until she is 25.

For others, it might not be so good. An example is North Carolina state employees who will be mandated to buy family coverage, but will not be eligible for any of the subsidies from the Exchanges.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/192035-states-worried-theyll-bear-the-brunt-of-anger-over-health-laws-shortcomings


We'll see what happens.  ObamaCare is supposed to lower costs; that hasn't stopped my premiums from rising every year.  

Personally, I could be in real danger of losing coverage, or of being priced out of the market.  

Making insurers cover 'pre-existing conditions' (and I have one) looks good on paper, it sounds like good, progressive feel-good legislation, but the implementation of it can bring the most serious of unintended consequences.  In essence, what we're doing is demanding that an insurer take on a negative asset.  Yes, that's a callous term, but it's also the truth.  The insurer takes on the customer, and in anticipation of the fiscal impact that person's condition(s) have on the company's bottom line, raises rates across the board.  This will provoke two responses: one, the company will let staff go (thereby adding to the number of un/der-employed and un/der-insured) or raise rates.  Fearing a PR fallout, it will raise rates.  The rate increase will likely be as astronomical and unprecedented, because the company will need to absorb extra costs, turn a profit, demonstrate a reasonable amount of annual growth, and appease its shareholders.

How does this affect me?  I work for a small, private nonprofit.  We have an option between HMO and PPO plans but, due to our size, we are not able to broker the lower bulk rates that much larger companies are able to get; nor do we have any big union clout.  At one point the rates were so high it made more sense for me to self-insure.  What happens to me when these rate increases kick in?  Thanks to ObamaCare, my premiums might be as much as-- or more than-- my mortgage, and the cost increase comes with no improvement in benefits or care.  Then again, my employer might be forced to ditch health insurance because of the prohibitive cost.  I'd most likely be stuck with buying some shit coverage to avoid prosecution; or I'd pay the fine and get on the gubmint plan, which would cost me less than going out-of-pocket.  

Maybe that's the grand design behind the plan; to get everyone on the dole, the better to exert control.  Some of my more cynical friends say so.  I used to take an OTC inhaler, but it was banned on 12/31/11 because of CFC in the propellant.  They're working on a HFA propelled inhaler now, but it still needs to pass FDA, and hasnt' even been submitted yet.  The only alternative is prescription medication which, without insurance, costs too damn much, and if I couldn't afford the coverage or the meds, I'd be at the mercy of the state plan.  Maybe my cynical friends are right.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Auress

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 09:41:23 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;49456
We'll see what happens.  ObamaCare is supposed to lower costs; that hasn't stopped my premiums from rising every year.  

Personally, I could be in real danger of losing coverage, or of being priced out of the market.  

Making insurers cover 'pre-existing conditions' (and I have one) looks good on paper, it sounds like good, progressive feel-good legislation, but the implementation of it can bring the most serious of unintended consequences.  In essence, what we're doing is demanding that an insurer take on a negative asset.  Yes, that's a callous term, but it's also the truth.  The insurer takes on the customer, and in anticipation of the fiscal impact that person's condition(s) have on the company's bottom line, raises rates across the board.  This will provoke two responses: one, the company will let staff go (thereby adding to the number of un/der-employed and un/der-insured) or raise rates.  Fearing a PR fallout, it will raise rates.  The rate increase will likely be as astronomical and unprecedented, because the company will need to absorb extra costs, turn a profit, demonstrate a reasonable amount of annual growth, and appease its shareholders.

How does this affect me?  I work for a small, private nonprofit.  We have an option between HMO and PPO plans but, due to our size, we are not able to broker the lower bulk rates that much larger companies are able to get; nor do we have any big union clout.  At one point the rates were so high it made more sense for me to self-insure.  What happens to me when these rate increases kick in?  Thanks to ObamaCare, my premiums might be as much as-- or more than-- my mortgage, and the cost increase comes with no improvement in benefits or care.  Then again, my employer might be forced to ditch health insurance because of the prohibitive cost.  I'd most likely be stuck with buying some shit coverage to avoid prosecution; or I'd pay the fine and get on the gubmint plan, which would cost me less than going out-of-pocket.  

Maybe that's the grand design behind the plan; to get everyone on the dole, the better to exert control.  Some of my more cynical friends say so.  I used to take an OTC inhaler, but it was banned on 12/31/11 because of CFC in the propellant.  They're working on a HFA propelled inhaler now, but it still needs to pass FDA, and hasnt' even been submitted yet.  The only alternative is prescription medication which, without insurance, costs too damn much, and if I couldn't afford the coverage or the meds, I'd be at the mercy of the state plan.  Maybe my cynical friends are right.

 
I say let them prosecute me. You can't get blood from a turnip. I didn't have the money for this shit before, and I don't have now, and I won't have it when Obamacare takes affect, either. Toss me in jail so we can look like idiots to the rest of the world......oh wait........

cigfran

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 09:44:49 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;49527
I say let them prosecute me. You can't get blood from a turnip. I didn't have the money for this shit before, and I don't have now, and I won't have it when Obamacare takes affect, either. Toss me in jail so we can look like idiots to the rest of the world......oh wait........

 
Show me where in the actual text of the Act it is specified that an inability to afford insurance will be a criminal offense.

Auress

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 12:28:54 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49529
Show me where in the actual text of the Act it is specified that an inability to afford insurance will be a criminal offense.


I don't know that it says that because in all the things I've read, it doesn't. That wasn't my point, though. My point was that the insurance won't be any more affordable after Obamacare. Not for those of us true middlers who can't qualify for anything else and can't pay for what they're offering. See, they THINK we're able to afford it. But, we aren't. I know because I live it. So, my point is, even if it WERE a criminal offense, that changes nothing about my situation, I still can't buy it, I will still get heavily fined because I can't buy it, and if they chose to toss my tush in jail......at least I'd get FREE everything at that point. :p

Owl

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 09:05:17 pm »
Quote from: sailor;49440
Expect your Tri-Care rates to go up in next few years.

And just hope they don't check-valve the two of you out of Tri-Care or mandate taking insurance from any job you (as spouse in particular) get.  Military is looking at cutting costs big time.  Those two would likely be politically popular for non-combat / non-line of duty injuries.

 I'm self employed, and he's setting up a survival training school, and will be self employed.  but, yeah.  I hope we can keep it.  right now there s no way we could come up with the money for 2 people over 50.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

HeartShadow

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 08:06:18 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;49456


 
You realize that part of the cost for all health insurance is the cost for subsidizing the ER walkins that couldn't get preventative care when they needed it.

If everyone can get comprehensive preventative care, the OVERALL health costs should go DOWN.  Except, of course, for the fact that it's a profit-driven industry.

Single payer, damn it!

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 08:13:38 am »
Quote from: sailor;49386
If ObamaCare is upheld as written, will that be good for you?  bad for you? you don't know?

Assuming it is funded like it should be, it will me an Lyric and I will actually be able to have insurance. Which will mean that a lot of problems we have will actually be able to get treatment.
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sailor

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 09:32:44 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;49859
You realize that part of the cost for all health insurance is the cost for subsidizing the ER walkins that couldn't get preventative care when they needed it.

If everyone can get comprehensive preventative care, the OVERALL health costs should go DOWN.  Except, of course, for the fact that it's a profit-driven industry.

Single payer, damn it!

 
You have specific stats on that exact claim?

Getting people to use regular doctors for less than imminently life threatening emergencies instead of the ER would save money. Even getting them to us urgent care facilities would be an improvement over the ER.

I'm not so sure that getting them to a regular doctor on a regular basis would reduce the kinds of non-imminently life threatening things currently seen in the ER.  Example the kid with the persistent (week say) cough is not going to avoid the cough by having an annual check up; but being able to see a regular doctor during regular hours, or even urgent care at any hour, would be a lot cheaper than an ER.

Any kind of expanded coverage Might help this, not just single payor. The other major part is getting people to think of going to urgent care rather than the ER.  Private insurance helps drive that home by high co-pays for emergency room visits, but much lower ones for urgent care and cheap co-pays for regular doctors.

mandrina

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Re: ObamaCare and you? good, bad, neutral, unknown
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 10:27:43 am »
Quote from: sailor;49866
You have specific stats on that exact claim?

Getting people to use regular doctors for less than imminently life threatening emergencies instead of the ER would save money. Even getting them to us urgent care facilities would be an improvement over the ER.

I'm not so sure that getting them to a regular doctor on a regular basis would reduce the kinds of non-imminently life threatening things currently seen in the ER.  Example the kid with the persistent (week say) cough is not going to avoid the cough by having an annual check up; but being able to see a regular doctor during regular hours, or even urgent care at any hour, would be a lot cheaper than an ER.

Any kind of expanded coverage Might help this, not just single payor. The other major part is getting people to think of going to urgent care rather than the ER.  Private insurance helps drive that home by high co-pays for emergency room visits, but much lower ones for urgent care and cheap co-pays for regular doctors.

 

the point behind the single payer argument is that it will theorectically no longer be a profit driven industry and so the cost should fall because of that.  Not that there would necessarily be any difference between the care available under each one.
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