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Author Topic: North Carolina passes state constitutional amendment ban gay marriage  (Read 3845 times)

cigfran

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Quote from: Aisling;53625
Disappointed, but not at all surprised the result.  There's a lot of work to be done in this state (and this country) before we can proclaim equality for all.

 
It'll never happen. Not in the US.

Altair

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Quote from: Sage;53604
MLK once wrote that justice too long delayed is justice denied. I know we're working against the tide. I know things are rough. But knowing that I will never be able to marry my girlfriend in the majority of states in my nation, because some bigoted asshats can't accept the fact this is not a frickin' theocracy - yeah, I scream. I scream and I rage at the fact I am a second-class citizen (for being a lesbian, for being genderqueer, for having a female body) in my nation. Not just in my nation, but my bigoted, white, conservative, Christian town, which can barely stand the presence of interracial couples in 2012. I will never be able to walk hand-in-hand with my biracial girlfriend who, despite being half white, has eyes the wrong shape for this part of Virginia.

No one's quitting. But anger doesn't mean you have to quit. And what makes me mad is the kind of democracy that means mob rule wins. I hate the fact we can vote bigotry into law.


THANK YOU. I couldn't have said it better.

Enough talk. This is what we DO:

1. Add NC to the map of "No Go" states. I will relieve them of my presence, my business, and my $ until this is undone.

2. Focus on the next battlegrounds--WA, MN, MD, and ME, in all of which we have a much better chance of winning, if we learn the lessons of CA and NC and do the work.

--For most of us outside those states, that means contacting relatives and friends (Facebook is a great tool for this) in those states and making sure they're not only on board, but talking it up with their friends.

--Send MONEY. Yes, everybody's broke; I don't care if you send just $1. Send something.

3. Keep perspective. I was seething after Prop 8 passed; now only a few years later, marriage equality has spread to NY, IA, NH, CT,...  The younger generation overwhelmingly gets it, and they will constitute ever greater parts of the electorate, as the repressive dinosaurs and their fossilized bigotries slide towards extinction. We are winning, and we will ultimately prevail. Remember that.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
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Altair

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Quote from: Aisling;53625
Disappointed, but not at all surprised the result.  There's a lot of work to be done in this state (and this country) before we can proclaim equality for all.

 
Lamentably, no, not a surprise. Religion is the biggest reservoir of resistance to queer equality, so Bible Belt states are going to be an uphill climb for us, to put it mildly.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

cigfran

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Quote from: Altair;53671
Religion is the biggest reservoir of resistance to queer equality...

 
One in particular: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidhenson/2012/05/amendment-one-and-an-angry-lament-of-a-native-son/

Altair

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Quote from: cigfran;53673
One in particular: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidhenson/2012/05/amendment-one-and-an-angry-lament-of-a-native-son/


In this country and many others, yes, Christianity is the culprit--specifically, conservative Christianity. But go overseas, and you'll find other conservative religions are just as busy going after us.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Agonistes

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Quote from: Celtag;53605
Also 20 years ago in my home state of Texas it was illegal to basically be gay. The Supreme Court had to overturn it. I am very much a person who believes in live and let live. It's your life and you have the choice on how you should live it, including getting married if your are gay.

 
I moved to Texas when I was a lad, leaving my family back home. I'm openly gay, and I have experience much bigotry and hate in Texas. I'm not saying Texas is bad, but some of the people are just horrid.

I'm also biased, I have never lived in any other state, so I don't know if it's this bad anywhere else.

My fiance and I are moving to Canada or Germany depending on where our new jobs come through at (I know that's a rather large range).

Altair

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Quote from: Agonistes;53683
I moved to Texas when I was a lad, leaving my family back home. I'm openly gay, and I have experience much bigotry and hate in Texas. I'm not saying Texas is bad, but some of the people are just horrid.


Randall or Lyric can address this far better than I, but Texas is BAD. Really, really bad.

I shudder to think it, if you're judging the whole of the U.S. by Texas!
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Valentine

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Quote from: Altair;53671
Lamentably, no, not a surprise. Religion is the biggest reservoir of resistance to queer equality, so Bible Belt states are going to be an uphill climb for us, to put it mildly.

 
Well, and things are changing everywhere. I know I'm heartbroken right now for all of my dear, brave Methodist friends who just got home from their denominational general conference in Florida, where huge numbers turned out to demonstrate for changing the Methodist position on queer issue to one that is positive and affirming--and this in one of the biggest denominations of Christianity in the world.  And they fell short in their efforts, but by a pretty small margin.  Give them four years until the next conference, and their grief may turn to celebration.
Some folk have threatened schism, of course, and the same thing is going on with the Anglican Communion, and there's plenty of churning in a lot of the mainline Protestant denominations.  It's an uphill battle, still, in the Roman church, but we'll see how that goes, and at least people are trying, with the Baptists.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
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Sage

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Quote from: Valentine;53693

Some folk have threatened schism, of course, and the same thing is going on with the Anglican Communion, and there's plenty of churning in a lot of the mainline Protestant denominations.  It's an uphill battle, still, in the Roman church, but we'll see how that goes, and at least people are trying, with the Baptists.

 
The same thing recently happened in my family's Presbyterian church, and in the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - the mainstream Lutherans, as opposed to the more conservative Missouri Synod) I think also had a few schisms over the gay issue. When I'm feeling especially bitter, it does my heart good to think that my sexual orientation and gender identity is breaking up some churches that caused me a lot of pain and grief as a child (and today).
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

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mandrina

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Quote from: Altair;53686
Randall or Lyric can address this far better than I, but Texas is BAD. Really, really bad.

I shudder to think it, if you're judging the whole of the U.S. by Texas!

 
I'm not really looking forward to this move.  It even says in the beginning of the guidebooks that Texas is really conservative and nonwhite or non hetero tourists may experience some issues.
Katrina

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Valentine

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Quote from: Sage;53696
The same thing recently happened in my family's Presbyterian church, and in the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - the mainstream Lutherans, as opposed to the more conservative Missouri Synod) I think also had a few schisms over the gay issue. When I'm feeling especially bitter, it does my heart good to think that my sexual orientation and gender identity is breaking up some churches that caused me a lot of pain and grief as a child (and today).

 
The big Presbyterian seminary that's affiliated with my seminary actually passed an at least gay-affirming policy statement just last year.  Times are changing.  And you're right, there's lots of organizing among the Lutherans, which is part of why there's a Missouri Synod.

The thing a lot of us outside Christianity aren't aware of is that this is also a matter of business.  In nearly every denomination in the US, church attendance and membership are falling, and that means no tithes and nothing in the collection plates, and that means churches closing.  And one of the primary issues in dropping attendance is that young people aren't joining to replace older people who are dying, and when young people are surveyed about why they didn't stay--even in evangelical denominations--one of the primary reasons is that the homophobia doesn't square with their values and their experience of queer folk.  The homophobia issue is a basic economic crisis for Christian churches in the US.  (It's telling that one of the few denominations actually gaining membership in the US is the Unitarian Universalists.  I believe the Metropolitan Community Churches are doing okay, too, for that matter.)  Homophobia is just-about-literally killing churches.

At the same time, they're balancing that with concerns about the place their attendance is growing:  the global South, especially in Africa and Asia, where heavy missionary recruiting has built church after church.  But it's the most conservative elements of these churches doing that overseas missionary outreach, and one of the consequences is that those growing memberships outside North America are often both incredibly socially conservative and the only place these denominations are seeing growth.  So they're trying to balance risking losing an entire generation of Americans versus losing the conservative-controlled thousands they are getting from overseas.

...can you tell I hang out with Christians all the time, these days?
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Sage

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Quote from: Valentine;53708
(It's telling that one of the few denominations actually gaining membership in the US is the Unitarian Universalists.  I believe the Metropolitan Community Churches are doing okay, too, for that matter.)  Homophobia is just-about-literally killing churches.

 
First, thanks so much for your long and well-thought-out post. This is information I want to know more about, but don't always know places to look.

I thought that UUs were struggling too, but I'm glad they're not. My local UU church is, unfortunately, doing poorly- the minister was run off last November and the lay-led congregation isn't doing well at all. Despite not being Christian, I've started attending the local MCC just for something to scratch that spiritual itch (and have my LGBTness affirmed!).
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Valentine

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Quote from: Sage;53710
First, thanks so much for your long and well-thought-out post. This is information I want to know more about, but don't always know places to look.

I thought that UUs were struggling too, but I'm glad they're not. My local UU church is, unfortunately, doing poorly- the minister was run off last November and the lay-led congregation isn't doing well at all. Despite not being Christian, I've started attending the local MCC just for something to scratch that spiritual itch (and have my LGBTness affirmed!).


The UUs are hurting differently, honestly.  A lot of the money has gone away even as people numbers stay very healthy.  One of the two UU-specific seminaries in the US has closed its doors and is only online, and the other has taken deep hits to the budget but is still afloat with a lot of creative thinking and austerity measures.  There are deep generational divides, especially on issues of theism--roughly, older UUs tend to be very leery of theism in general, and younger UUs are more enthusiastic about it, for a lot of complicated reasons--and the denomination has taken some hits, especially when it comes to investments, for its social-justice stands.  People are telling me half of the ministers denomination-wide will be retiring in the next five to ten years.  (Mostly that just makes me cheerful about my job prospects, I must admit.)  But these all seem to be issues related to economic downturn in the US, more than of people leaving.  There's nowhere near the money that, say, the Foursquares or Latter-Day Saints command, but there's no hemorrhage of membership.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
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sailor

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Quote from: cigfran;53637
Like the Jim Crow laws? Or anti-sodomy laws?

 
I guess you missed the reference.  I was quoting Obama.

Finn

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Quote from: mandrina;53699
It even says in the beginning of the guidebooks that Texas is really conservative and nonwhite or non hetero tourists may experience some issues.

 
Uh. Not San Antonio. Over half the population is Hispanic.

Also, just want to be a brat and say that Texas is not a bad state: there are unfortunately a lot of people who give it a bad name. Most of them live in the north or in the east parts of Texas. Go south, go central, go west, and you may be surprised.

*gets off soapbox* Yes, I am a native Texan, why do you ask?
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