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Author Topic: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning  (Read 9202 times)

Altair

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Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« on: July 02, 2014, 06:43:36 am »
Because for those of us who think this sucks, we might as well get some humor out of it...and I know this will be a hit with certain folks around here (I'm looking at YOU, Mel)...

Supreme Court Rules JCPenney Allowed to Sacrifice Employees to Appease Cthulhu

http://www.moonmontchronicle.com/supreme-court-rules-jcpenney-allowed-to-sacrifice-employees-to-appease-cthulhu.html
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Sisu

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 09:47:26 am »
Quote from: Altair;152008

Supreme Court Rules JCPenney Allowed to Sacrifice Employees to Appease Cthulhu

http://www.moonmontchronicle.com/supreme-court-rules-jcpenney-allowed-to-sacrifice-employees-to-appease-cthulhu.html

 
Yes! Just what I needed as I try to uncurl from my fetal ball of rage!

Materialist

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 09:59:13 am »
Quote from: Sisu;152014
Yes! Just what I needed as I try to uncurl from my fetal ball of rage!

 
I feel ya. And you wanna know why Hobby Lobby won? Because most of the justices are men. The female justices, with one male, dissented, but the rest of the boys were like "holy shit! We can't let women do whatever they want with their gametes!"

I am not going to shop at Hobby Lobby again, and will track down the CEO so I can him why.

Thank you, Supreme Court of Dicks, for allowing managers to shove their religious beliefs onto their underlings. That the United Nations agrees that family planning is a human right of all couples is, apparently, way over your heads.

Redfaery

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 10:07:16 am »
Quote from: Materialist;152015
I feel ya. And you wanna know why Hobby Lobby won? Because most of the justices are men. The female justices, with one male, dissented, but the rest of the boys were like "holy shit! We can't let women do whatever they want with their gametes!"

I am not going to shop at Hobby Lobby again, and will track down the CEO so I can him why.

Thank you, Supreme Court of Dicks, for allowing managers to shove their religious beliefs onto their underlings. That the United Nations agrees that family planning is a human right of all couples is, apparently, way over your heads.


This is true. It also seems to be beyond their comprehension that plenty of women need some form of birth control for other reasons. I have an IUD right now because I have polycystic ovary syndrome, which is treated with....birth control. Without such treatment, I'd be at a greater risk for various cancers of my reproductive organs.
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Castus

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 11:22:32 am »
Quote from: Materialist;152015
I feel ya. And you wanna know why Hobby Lobby won? Because most of the justices are men. The female justices, with one male, dissented, but the rest of the boys were like "holy shit! We can't let women do whatever they want with their gametes!"

I am not going to shop at Hobby Lobby again, and will track down the CEO so I can him why.

Thank you, Supreme Court of Dicks, for allowing managers to shove their religious beliefs onto their underlings. That the United Nations agrees that family planning is a human right of all couples is, apparently, way over your heads.
Right, because the law would have magically changed in order to make forcing Hobby Lobby to pay for these things constitutional had the SCOTUS been composed entirely of Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg's fantasy love-children. Although I was initially quite pleased with the decision -- how could I not be, with every bishop in America applauding the SCOTUS' findings -- I personally have come to be more in line with Justice Ginsburg's dissenting opinion concerning the ramifications of such a thing. Pending a more nuanced reading, I may even come to disagree entirely with the ruling. I still don't think it is okay to engage in misandrist slamming of the highest court in the land just because they, ya know, did their jobs. Even if they did so in a manner with which you disapprove, in which I'm sure there are legions of traditional marriage advocates who would love to commiserate with you concerning the temerity of the judges and justices of the American legal system; who would dare conduct their business in such a way that they would disagree with it.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 11:27:38 am by Castus »

HeartShadow

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 11:31:07 am »
Quote from: Castus;152020


 
They did NOT do their jobs, they favored one religion over another and declared that a for-profit company can choose what laws they want to follow based on religious desires.

So, if I start a company and decide that my religious beliefs include theft from all non-believers, that decision says that inside my stores THAT IS LEGAL.  Don't like the law?  change your religion!

And it's still the same damn sexual double standard.  Men want sex, they go find a "bad girl".  Women want sex - nope.  only if married and for the creation of children.

Second verse, same as the first ....

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 11:36:39 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;152022
They did NOT do their jobs, they favored one religion over another and declared that a for-profit company can choose what laws they want to follow based on religious desires.

 
Religious desires, further, that are now legally claimed to be possessed by a corporation itself.  Not the owners.  By the company.  And because of that, that corporation now has the power to impose adherence with those beliefs upon its employees.

(I'm back to "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.")
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stephyjh

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 11:43:45 am »
Quote from: Castus;152020
Right, because the law would have magically changed in order to make forcing Hobby Lobby to pay for these things constitutional had the SCOTUS been composed entirely of Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg's fantasy love-children. Although I was initially quite pleased with the decision -- how could I not be, with every bishop in America applauding the SCOTUS' findings -- I personally have come to be more in line with Justice Ginsburg's dissenting opinion concerning the ramifications of such a thing. Pending a more nuanced reading, I may even come to disagree entirely with the ruling. I still don't think it is okay to engage in misandrist slamming of the highest court in the land just because they, ya know, did their jobs. Even if they did so in a manner with which you disapprove, in which I'm sure there are legions of traditional marriage advocates who would love to commiserate with you concerning the temerity of the judges and justices of the American legal system; who would dare conduct their business in such a way that they would disagree with it.

 
They didn't do their jobs. The law never said that Hobby Lobby HAD to provide contraception coverage, period. What it said is that if Hobby Lobby wanted to take the tax credit associated with offering health coverage to employees, that health coverage had to meet a minimum standard. What Hobby Lobby wanted, and got, was the right to have it both ways, to take the credit without meeting the minimum standard.

This wasn't just a bad decision for women. This was also a bad decision for big business, as it undermines the concept of the corporate veil, which means that there is now legal precedent for ignoring the separation between the person and their corporation. The reason that so many other major businesses were so opposed is that now when a business gets sued, even if it's a corporation and thus a separate legal entity, there's caselaw for considering the corporation an extension of its owners, and that means that the protection for the owners is called into question.

This wasn't about religious freedom. It was about supporting one religion over all others and about letting money override the rule of law.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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Castus

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 11:57:02 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;152022
They did NOT do their jobs, they favored one religion over another and declared that a for-profit company can choose what laws they want to follow based on religious desires.

So, if I start a company and decide that my religious beliefs include theft from all non-believers, that decision says that inside my stores THAT IS LEGAL.  Don't like the law?  change your religion!

And it's still the same damn sexual double standard.  Men want sex, they go find a "bad girl".  Women want sex - nope.  only if married and for the creation of children.

Second verse, same as the first ....

Yes, they did. Just because you disagree with it, does not mean they didn't do their jobs. It is the job of the SCOTUS to rule on issues of constitutionality and jurisprudence, they did that, and have therefore done their job whether you like it or not. If in the course of doing so "they favored one religion over another and declared that a for-profit company can choose what laws they want to follow based on religious desires" then that is just the price of doing business. If you want to start up that company and steal from the unbelieving heathens, go right ahead! I'm pretty sure test cases and the like stemming from this decision will be coming down the pipe for years. Do I think that's silly? Yes I do, because the decision opens up a huge can of worms regarding religious rights vis-a-vis employees etc etc (see: sacrifices to Cthulhu).

Again, I am not comfortable with the decision. It sets a very poor and rather dangerous precedent and it furthers the abhorrent idea of corporate personhood. My issue here is solely with attacking the SCOTUS. Attack Hobby Lobby, attack the ruling,  but don't attack the justices.

stephyjh

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 12:30:36 pm »
Quote from: Castus;152027
Yes, they did. Just because you disagree with it, does not mean they didn't do their jobs. It is the job of the SCOTUS to rule on issues of constitutionality and jurisprudence, they did that, and have therefore done their job whether you like it or not. If in the course of doing so "they favored one religion over another and declared that a for-profit company can choose what laws they want to follow based on religious desires" then that is just the price of doing business. If you want to start up that company and steal from the unbelieving heathens, go right ahead! I'm pretty sure test cases and the like stemming from this decision will be coming down the pipe for years. Do I think that's silly? Yes I do, because the decision opens up a huge can of worms regarding religious rights vis-a-vis employees etc etc (see: sacrifices to Cthulhu).

Again, I am not comfortable with the decision. It sets a very poor and rather dangerous precedent and it furthers the abhorrent idea of corporate personhood. My issue here is solely with attacking the SCOTUS. Attack Hobby Lobby, attack the ruling,  but don't attack the justices.

 
But the problem with thinking they acted in accordance with their job is that the constitution is specifically constructed to keep government from backing one religion or another. It's a dangerous second step after Citizens United. Corporations have the rights of people, but women don't. I don't think you understand how terrifying this decision is to a woman. Perhaps picking up a copy of The Handmaid's Tale would be helpful to you, because that's the logical progression from the decisions that are taking place now.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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Amphibian

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2014, 12:32:08 pm »
Quote from: Castus;152027
My issue here is solely with attacking the SCOTUS. Attack Hobby Lobby, attack the ruling,  but don't attack the justices.

Merely being a SCOTUS Justice doesn't grant Protection From Criticism. I'd argue the exact opposite, in fact; it is our responsibility as active citizens to provide feedback on the activities of the government.

Quote from: Declaration of Independence
...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...

Do I demand an absolute accounting of everything the justices do? Not by a long shot. When their personal lives directly influence a judicial ruling, that's where I have a problem.

Juniperberry

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 12:46:49 pm »
Quote from: Castus;152027
Yes, they did. Just because you disagree with it, does not mean they didn't do their jobs. It is the job of the SCOTUS to rule on issues of constitutionality and jurisprudence, they did that, and have therefore done their job whether you like it or not.


A lot of people seem to agree with you that this isn't the fault of Scotus, but the fault of Congress for enacting RFRA.
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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2014, 12:52:11 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;152023
Religious desires, further, that are now legally claimed to be possessed by a corporation itself.  Not the owners.  By the company.  And because of that, that corporation now has the power to impose adherence with those beliefs upon its employees.

(I'm back to "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.")

 
I've been talking about this turn of events with my husband and am having to resort to gallows humor to cope and so am finding "corporations are people, my friend" escaping my lips more often that I think I'd like.

I agree that establishing personhood via Texas execution is the way to go.
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Sisu

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2014, 01:01:28 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;152028
But the problem with thinking they acted in accordance with their job is that the constitution is specifically constructed to keep government from backing one religion or another. It's a dangerous second step after Citizens United. Corporations have the rights of people, but women don't. I don't think you understand how terrifying this decision is to a woman.

 
All of this. Time and time again the rights of women are given lesser priority in the American government and at times their voices are outright silenced. *side-eye to you Michigan state government*

For me the underlying problem in all of this is the ridiculous abuse of corporate personhood and Hobby Lobby being a for-profit organization, not a church. It sets a frightening precedent for any other company wanting to get around laws they disagree with on the grounds of "religious freedom".

A lot of women are suddenly in a very scary position right now and this will affect most immediately and severely women of lower-income brackets. Considering the response from the justices who voted for this decision have come out and stated that the burden of providing contraceptives should be shouldered by the government- and that said government doesn't currently have a way of taking on that burden (Congress is going to have to deal with it! Oh joy! We all know how effective those people have been lately!) - the outlook for this situation grows grimmer by the moment. (..Yay America?)

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Re: Hobby Lobby was only the beginning
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2014, 02:32:06 pm »
Quote from: Altair;152008
Because for those of us who think this sucks, we might as well get some humor out of it...and I know this will be a hit with certain folks around here (I'm looking at YOU, Mel)...

Supreme Court Rules JCPenney Allowed to Sacrifice Employees to Appease Cthulhu

http://www.moonmontchronicle.com/supreme-court-rules-jcpenney-allowed-to-sacrifice-employees-to-appease-cthulhu.html

 
Well, it's a start but I'm still a bit angry at this.  I've never shopped at a Hobby Lobby and now resolve to never step foot in one (which wouldn't be difficult as I haven't needed art supplies for about a decade now).  I'm also kind of curious how Chick-Fil-A will try to take advantage of this.  Oh well, one more reason to yell at my "family" whenever I see that they went there.


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