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Author Topic: A global religion?  (Read 802 times)

arete

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A global religion?
« on: March 11, 2019, 06:20:27 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

ehbowen

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 08:04:32 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?
You make it sound so simple.

For some of us, faith is not founded upon "feeling good", but upon Truth. And we will not compromise that Truth for the sake of getting along. Bluntly, unless that global religion is based squarely upon the Person of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice, I'm not on board. Neither are quite a few of those who are close to me.

That's just how it is. And I'm sure that many here would hold out and be horrified if someone tried to dictate Christian fundamentalism to them as the only acceptable form of religious practice. And rightly so.

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Darkhawk

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 08:17:13 pm »
For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

Different religions solve different problems.

Different people have different problems.

So: no. Obviously that would not work.
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bekkilyn

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 09:35:34 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

Even if it was possible, would it really be a good thing for everyone to be exactly the the same? Even if it were to stop some religious wars, what would we all lose in the process? Over on a Christian forum that I frequent, I often see threads there from people complaining (usually Catholics, but sometimes others) about the thousands of different Christian denominations and how all those denominations are being disobedient when Christ demands unity within the church. But they forget that there are many people who would never become Christian at all (or who would leave) if the only choice they had was being Catholic. Maybe since people are all different, all those different denominations have a beneficial purpose to meet the needs of a variety of unique people.

So if we take that a step further outside of Christianity and decide that some form of Wicca would be the one religion, how would it be decided which form it would be? Gardnerian, Eclectic, something else? Would everyone have to be skyclad within circles? Do all the high priests and priestesses need to become indoctrinated and certified by some board of Wiccan standards board to make sure they are all on the same page? Who would enforce that everyone in the world is practicing the appropriate form of Wicca and would "heretics" need to be hunted down for the sake of "peace"?

What about Atheists? Will they be forced to become Theists?

I just don't see how it could work and not have everyone fighting each other even worse than before!

Not to mention some Evangelical Christian groups who see in biblical prophecy that the arrival of the Anti-Christ is going to institute a one world government and one world religion and require everyone in the world to receive the mark of the beast in order to buy and sell. Many see *any* form of religious ecumenicism (even just working together to provide aid to impoverished countries) as a threat and actively work against it.

Taking up cat herding should be challenging enough I would think. :)
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Donal2018

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 11:28:09 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

Not a Global religion, but maybe some Universal Human Principles in common. We are all human regardless of what religion or non-religion we choose. This could be the core of some Universal Values in a Global context. I think Democracy, Human Rights, could be the basis for a form of Universal Ethics in a Global Culture. We could do this while retaining more specific and different religious and cultural values.

So, no matter how different we are, there are maybe some fundamental commonalities and values that we could all subscribe to. This while remaining free to choose our own religions, belief systems, non-religions, etc. I think the term Humanism might apply in some sense. So, you could be a Humanist Christian, a Humanist Wiccan, a Humanist Atheist, etc. I realize that some forms of Humanism means a skepticism of the supernatural, but I am using Humanism as a more general term here.

Zlote Jablko

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 11:47:11 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

I don’t think you could achieve that without religious wars on an epic scale. Far from preventing them, it might make things worse.

This is one reason why I don’t accept belief-based or credulity-based judgment. I have a dualistic belief system in which evil and good are at odds. The good can cross the bridge to paradise (Raj) or climb the glass mountain, whereas the others fall down to the dragon. This sort of judgment  has a history in Eastern Europe going back long before Christianity.

That’s judgment based on morality, though, which I would argue is good and necessary. It’s when you start judging people based on *beliefs* that you start thinking we all need to homogenize in order to get along. We don’t. The simple act of believing or disbelieving something does not determine whether you’re good or evil. That’s the only idea I’d like to kill. If we could just do that, we’d be fine.

Dynes Hysbys

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 06:15:37 am »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

I can't imagine anything worse. Religions have tried in the past and a quick look at the current Middle East shows how successful the current attempt by IS is proving.

As I'm not an adherent to a dharmic faith nor an eclectic wiccan, those principles are as meaningless to me as the bible is. I'm not going to abandon my world view to embrace them or anything else. How would you plan to try to force me?


Noctua

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 09:44:04 am »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

So I have a few issues with this. First is the assumption that English became a "universal language" out of some motivation to have all people communicate, when in actuality it happened that way because of British colonialism. English speaking is widely popular in many countries because it is seen as being a significator of and a means to gaining prosperity, not some ooey-gooey warm and fuzzy sentiment of global communication and sharing ideas. For example I met a young man in Haiti who grew up on the streets, and taught himself English so he could work as a translator for wealthy (by Haitian standards) American tourists like myself. For him learning English was simply the easiest and fastest means to the end of getting himself out of poverty. English speaking people tend to have money, and people learn English so they can trade with those who have money.

Secondly, it's only with recent studies that the realization has come about that a loss of cultural diversity can be as damaging to the human species as a loss of genetic diversity. Having different cultural perspectives brings different ways of looking at the world, and subsequently different ways of solving problems. When we lose those cultures, we lose that flexibility that may be what our species needs to survive.

Nearly every religion and school of philosophy I've encountered has some variant of Christianity's "golden rule" in place- it's a theme that seems to run common throughout all cultures. Standardization isn't going to solve the issues of war and intolerance, because we all are already coming to the same ideas that we should treat others with respect. The issues run deeper than that.

Uneryx

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 01:39:45 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate. It makes sense to have an international language for that matter. can the same happen with religion? There are religious wars and intolerance. If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us? For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

English is far from a universal language. Yes, people who want to trade with english-speaking people will learn english, but there are many who would rather not, or even disdain its presence in their life. Not to mention that, if it were mandated that people learn English rather than their native tongues, around the world, there'd be massive backlash.

The same is true for religion. People can't even agree on what to eat for lunch, much less deeply held things like what they believe. I don't think insisting on a universal religion would help anything.

Ashmire

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 02:08:43 pm »
English is far from a universal language. Yes, people who want to trade with english-speaking people will learn english, but there are many who would rather not, or even disdain its presence in their life. Not to mention that, if it were mandated that people learn English rather than their native tongues, around the world, there'd be massive backlash.

The same is true for religion. People can't even agree on what to eat for lunch, much less deeply held things like what they believe. I don't think insisting on a universal religion would help anything.

Not only that, recent studies suggest that, far from being a benefit, a single universal language to the limited extent we do have it is actively harmful to cognitive health.  The absolute biggest protection yet found against Alzheimer's is being bilingual.

EnderDragonFire

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 06:31:11 pm »
English language became a universal language, so that all people can communicate.

When did that happen? Last time I went out of the USA, to Peru and Bolivia, only about 1/10 of the people I met had any English. Some of them didn't even have any Spanish because they were monolingual Aymara or Quechua speakers. Here at home, I see and interact with monolingual Spanish speaking immigrants on a daily basis - those are people living in the USA, an English-dominant country. English isn't a global language, and it's never gonna be one, if the growth of French and Spanish in developing countries is any indicator - right now those two languages are growing rapidly in places other than their historic ranges.

It makes sense to have an international language for that matter.

Does it? Seems to me that all that would do is wipe away thousands of years of traditional songs, stories, and values that are expressed through language. Look at what happened in Ireland - how much Irish identitiy was warped by the imposition of English; it changed their religious practices, their music, their literature, everything that was uniquely Irish was threatened by adopting English. The same thing happened with indigenous North American groups.

Regarding buisness, tourism, and political interaction - the main things that would benefit from a common global language - translation is already available and is totally sufficient to allow for globalized interactions without destroying thousands of cultures.

can the same happen with religion?

Can we convert the entire world to one religion? No. No. Not remotely. There are dozens of extant proselytizing religions that have tried and failed to do this, as well as an unknown number of extinct ones. Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, and many, many other religions have tried to spread their teachings on a global scale and none have gotten further than 1/3 of the population, which was reached by Christianity which is currently shrinking in it's traditional strongholds and which will likely take up a much smaller percentage than it currently does in the next couple of decades.

There are religious wars and intolerance.

Yeah - I would say converting the whole world to one religion would involve quite a bit of both.

If we agree that we all have a minimum of religious acceptance would it help us?

Religious acceptance? Yeah. I could actually get behind that - not sure how that meshes with the rest of your post, though.

For example, if we agree that the golden wiccan rule or dharma became our religion too and all people followed that, would it help us?

If everyone followed the same religious dogma, magically, tomorrow - without any need human rights violations to get there - would we be any better? No, I don't think we would. Most people already follow some form of religious morality, and having them all follow the Rede wouldn't really be any different from having some of them following the Rede, some of them following Ahimsa, some of them following the Golden Rule, some of them following the NAP, etc.

If most people already have a moral compass that says 'don't murder people' and yet still kill each other, how would making those compasses uniform change things?
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 06:42:31 pm »
So I have a few issues with this. First is the assumption that English became a "universal language" out of some motivation to have all people communicate, when in actuality it happened that way because of British colonialism.

As a side note to this, English is a pretty bad choice of universal language, anyway; its array of sounds (including 12 vowels, compared to most languages' 3-5) is unusual, its grammar is inconsistent, and do not even get me started on the spelling  :o

English's kleptomaniac approach to vocabulary could be a positive or negative. I once spoke with a linguist whose first language was French, and she mentioned how hard it was to grasp the nuances between such words as 'shimmer, glimmer, gleam, glitter' etc. where French has one word for all of those concepts.

Zlote Jablko

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 07:03:36 pm »
As a side note to this, English is a pretty bad choice of universal language, anyway; its array of sounds (including 12 vowels, compared to most languages' 3-5) is unusual, its grammar is inconsistent, and do not even get me started on the spelling  :o

English's kleptomaniac approach to vocabulary could be a positive or negative. I once spoke with a linguist whose first language was French, and she mentioned how hard it was to grasp the nuances between such words as 'shimmer, glimmer, gleam, glitter' etc. where French has one word for all of those concepts.

Yeah, I didn’t even touch upon the language thing. English has a huge vocabulary from a variety of sources. This can make it a useful first language when learning a variety of other European languages, but Spanish is far easier.

The case could be made that the importance of English will decline as time goes on. East Asia is increasingly just as important as “the west” and even in the west, it’s likely that English will lose some of its prominence in the European Union.

That’s not to say that Chinese will become a global lingua Franca either. Honestly, I don’t see any language that’s likely to have such a global influence in the near future. I think that was only made possible by colonialism. In the modern era, I suspect we’re looking at a divided world that’s partitioned among various cultural/national spheres of influence. You know, just like most of human history.


Darkhawk

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 08:58:03 pm »
lingua Franca

I was just contemplating earlier, in regards to this thread, that the English term for a widespread trade language means "French language".
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arete

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Re: A global religion?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 08:49:22 am »
You make it sound so simple.

For some of us, faith is not founded upon "feeling good", but upon Truth. And we will not compromise that Truth for the sake of getting along. Bluntly, unless that global religion is based squarely upon the Person of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice, I'm not on board. Neither are quite a few of those who are close to me.

That's just how it is. And I'm sure that many here would hold out and be horrified if someone tried to dictate Christian fundamentalism to them as the only acceptable form of religious practice. And rightly so.

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True. But all religions must have a common ground, no? Kindness, love, compassion  :) Christianity and other religions have that too.

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