What is this morality thing anyway?

[Breeze]

I don't think this example is inherently immoral or unethical; the reason for the action is a determining factor.

I used "is" there which denotes a certain amount of absolutism and I really shouldn't have.  My point would've been better conveyed if I had said "would typically be seen as" or something of that sort.  This is one of those parts where variance comes into play.  I believe that stealing is wrong, and I believe it in a black and white sense.  But, I understand also that there are certain extenuating circumstances which could lead a person to steal.  Say you've got hungry kids, no money, no access to food; under those circumstances I can understand why a person would steal, but in my view the intention or circumstance doesn't change the act from being immoral nor unethical.

[MadZealot]

I don't think this example is inherently immoral or unethical; the reason for the action is a determining factor.

Would you say that if the wallet & cards were yours?

[veggiewolf]

Would you say that if the wallet & cards were yours?

 
Yes, after screaming and carrying on.  

I don't have to like that something happened to recognize that the morality of the action is situational, or that an ethical act to one person (or one group) might be unethical to another.  I can be mad and rail at the world if my wallet is stolen while simultaneously acknowledging that there were factors driving someone to do it...and that had I those same factors, I might* act the same way.

(*As of yet, I've not been reduced to having to steal from anyone to survive.)

[mandrina]

Yes, after screaming and carrying on.  

I don't have to like that something happened to recognize that the morality of the action is situational, or that an ethical act to one person (or one group) might be unethical to another.  I can be mad and rail at the world if my wallet is stolen while simultaneously acknowledging that there were factors driving someone to do it...and that had I those same factors, I might* act the same way.

(*As of yet, I've not been reduced to having to steal from anyone to survive.)

  I still wouldn't call it moral or ethical, just less immoral or unethical than the alternative.

[HeartShadow]

I still wouldn't call it moral or ethical, just less immoral or unethical than the alternative.

 
*nods* sometimes there are no good answers.  You go with the least-bad you have, but that doesn't make it RIGHT.  just .. best you have.

[generic response]

A discussion on MUX got me thinking... What /is/ this thing we call morality? What do we mean when we talk about living a moral life? Where do morals come from? I realized that I don't really have a good working definition for words like "morality" and "ethics." Many of my personal reactions upon hearing such words come both from a bad religious upbringing and bad experiences in philosophy class in college, so I'd like to start changing how I think about these words.

 
It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

[savveir]

It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

 
How does that sum up morality?

[HeartShadow]

It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

 
Unless it's "without civilization, this all goes to hell" that has fuckall to do with morality.

Even with that, it doesn't say /much/.

[stephyjh]

It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

Um, no, it doesn't.

[Nyktipolos]

It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

To me, that kind of sums up urbanism and modern technology. What does it have to do with morals? I mean I could see accessibility to drinkable water being linked to morality but not necessarily the existence of drinkable water.

[generic response]

To me, that kind of sums up urbanism and modern technology. What does it have to do with morals? I mean I could see accessibility to drinkable water being linked to morality but not necessarily the existence of drinkable water.

 
Well, the alternative is usually going to jail or getting killed for being immoral.

[Nyktipolos]

Well, the alternative is usually going to jail or getting killed for being immoral.

I'm sorry but I don't really know what part of my post this is responding to. Could you please clarify?

[generic response]

I'm sorry but I don't really know what part of my post this is responding to. Could you please clarify?

 
I sometimes have problems with jumping thoughts and word salad. Here's what I think is relevant.


Me: It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

You: What does it have to do with morals?

Me: Well, the alternative is usually going to jail or getting killed for being immoral.

If you lie, cheat, steal, kill, etc you generally lose certain privileges. Most people are kept in line because it's accepted that you have to at least be tolerable some of the time. Which is a good thing I think.

[Nyktipolos]

 
Are you saying that you have to act morally to have access to things such as clean drinking water, television, and cars? Or are you saying that if one doesn't provide those things, they are being immoral and thus going to get incarcerated or killed?

I mean, for the former, there are plenty of people who don't have access to things such as the basic need for clean drinking water, but through no fault of their own (whether due to colonization, poor action on the part of their leaders, living in a wartorn country, there is a sudden economic collapse, catastrophic natural event, etc.). For the latter, ... I don't really view cars and television on the same basic needs level as water or food. I mean, no government provides cars and tv (well, in some countries, there are basic channels one can access without a tv package); and I'm sure there are some countries where aside from accessibility issues (which should be met), one doesn't need a car to get around their town.

[Darkhawk]

Me: It's really nice to have clean drinking water, television, and motor vehicles. That pretty much sums up morality.

You: What does it have to do with morals?

Me: Well, the alternative is usually going to jail or getting killed for being immoral.

If you lie, cheat, steal, kill, etc you generally lose certain privileges. Most people are kept in line because it's accepted that you have to at least be tolerable some of the time. Which is a good thing I think.

Soooooooo ... which one of "clean water", "televisions", and "motor vehicles" is the lying, which is the cheating, which is the stealing, and which is the killing?  (Or the lack of each of them.  Or something.)