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Author Topic: The power of words  (Read 5478 times)

SunflowerP

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Re: The power of words
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2013, 08:57:48 pm »
Quote from: Fireof9;96310

me - point taken, but I did try, flawed technique but I did try
her - you are an idiot
me - likely so maybe I should stfu

 
I see that your personal-life troubles really are messing you up - 'cause otherwise, you've been here long enough that you know me better than that.

Sometimes, when personal shit gets bad enough that it affects your perceptions and judgement (been there, done that), STFU is indeed the thing to do, not because you're an idiot, but just because your perceptions and judgement are messed up.

Take care of yourself.

(Also, just so you know - while I don't object to she/her, my preferred pronouns are sie/hir:).)

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
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“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
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My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Sveta

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The power of words
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2013, 07:23:25 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;96372

(Also, just so you know - while I don't object to she/her, my preferred pronouns are sie/hir:).)

Sunflower

How do you pronounce those? I'm assuming "hir" is just like "her" but what about "sie" -- is it "see" or "si" like rhymes with "my"?

there was another one with a z back in the thread too I think....

I've only recently seen these types of pronouns used and I'm curious about them. Pronunciation, proper usage, etc.

I grew up with he/she - if you were writing and needed to use a singular pronoun to represent both genders (a spectrum wasn't recognized back then) then you used "he". You NEVER used "they" as singular. Never never. My sixth grade LA teacher would have put your nose on the wall :-p

SunflowerP

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Re: The power of words
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2013, 03:07:53 am »
Quote from: Sveta;96396
How do you pronounce those? I'm assuming "hir" is just like "her" but what about "sie" -- is it "see" or "si" like rhymes with "my"?


They are pronounced like "see" and "hear".  Or I should rather say, that's how I pronounce them; others who prefer them may differ (see below).

Quote
there was another one with a z back in the thread too I think....


That'd probably be ze (or zie - different people prefer different spellings) and zir.

Quote
I've only recently seen these types of pronouns used and I'm curious about them. Pronunciation, proper usage, etc.


Usage pretty much parallels the usage of binary pronouns.  You may find this table useful.

As for pronunciation, that may depend on the person who prefers the pronoun, so your best bet (since you mostly won't be saying any given one out loud unless you're acquainted with a person who prefers that one) is to ask.

Quote
I grew up with he/she - if you were writing and needed to use a singular pronoun to represent both genders (a spectrum wasn't recognized back then) then you used "he". You NEVER used "they" as singular. Never never. My sixth grade LA teacher would have put your nose on the wall :-p

 
Nevertheless, singular "they" has centuries of precedent, and not just in colloquial usage (Shakespeare used it, f'ex) - and the use of "he", as a convention, only goes back to the 1700s.

Many of the things that elementary-school teachers taught us as unbreakable grammatical rules are actually just conventions (or worse, reflections of early modern attempts to supplant the organically-developed grammar of English with Latin grammar).  Schoolteachers, alas, get very little training in the technical details of the subjects they teach; most of their training is directed at how to teach.

May I commend to your attention this blog post on the subject at the grammar blog Grammargeddon!, co-written by TC's own Starglade who is a professional copyeditor?

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Gilbride

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Re: The power of words
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2013, 09:03:50 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;96463
Many of the things that elementary-school teachers taught us as unbreakable grammatical rules are actually just conventions (or worse, reflections of early modern attempts to supplant the organically-developed grammar of English with Latin grammar)


I've been saying this for years! There are no "unbreakable grammatical rules"- just different ways different people communicate in different contexts. And a lot of what we get told not to say has to do with class and power, not grammar (such as the "rule" against "aint").

Sveta

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Re: The power of words
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2013, 05:21:23 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;96463
They are pronounced like "see" and "hear".  Or I should rather say, that's how I pronounce them; others who prefer them may differ (see below).



That'd probably be ze (or zie - different people prefer different spellings) and zir.



Usage pretty much parallels the usage of binary pronouns.  You may find this table useful.

As for pronunciation, that may depend on the person who prefers the pronoun, so your best bet (since you mostly won't be saying any given one out loud unless you're acquainted with a person who prefers that one) is to ask.


 
Nevertheless, singular "they" has centuries of precedent, and not just in colloquial usage (Shakespeare used it, f'ex) - and the use of "he", as a convention, only goes back to the 1700s.

Many of the things that elementary-school teachers taught us as unbreakable grammatical rules are actually just conventions (or worse, reflections of early modern attempts to supplant the organically-developed grammar of English with Latin grammar).  Schoolteachers, alas, get very little training in the technical details of the subjects they teach; most of their training is directed at how to teach.

May I commend to your attention this blog post on the subject at the grammar blog Grammargeddon!, co-written by TC's own Starglade who is a professional copyeditor?

Sunflower

I've been trying to come back and say thank you for your explanations and links - my phone wasn't playing nice with the forum; got in here on my laptop. Much appreciated :) ... and a very thoughtful point about how our language has been 'forced' in a specific direction.. I never really considered that before...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 05:22:20 pm by Sveta »

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