collapse
2019 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $650 (same as last year) to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 16 Sept 2019: $660 donated. $10 more our minimum goal! Let's beat last year's total of $99 more than the minimum!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: The Power of Language  (Read 3197 times)

HeartShadow

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2195
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
    • http://www.flamekeeping.org
The Power of Language
« on: May 23, 2012, 10:56:41 am »
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

**

In FlameKeeping, language has a lot of power.  It's what gives us the ability to have abstract thought and communicate it to each other.  Just look at the frustration a baby has, and we have with that baby, when s/he cannot express what's wrong.  Then language is learned and communication happens.

If language is to be useful, it must be clear.  Words have a lot of power.  Ask anyone that's crying because of what someone else said, and you can see that power.  It might not be a physical power, but words can worm their way into our minds and change the way we see.  We judge people by their words as well as their actions, and how well they line up.  Language has power.

Stardancer

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 220
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 11:10:29 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

 
Words are just words - it's the intentions, meanings, connotations, inflections that are important. Our assosiations with a given word. Language is just a set of more or less consensus associations to a set of sounds. My set of connotations will be different from yours - partly due to cultural differences, partly because my native language is different from yours (and there is never a pure one-to-one correspondence between the twain), and so the 'power' inherent in the words I use may come across in an entirely different light to you.

In other words (hah!) I can make you cry without intending to - because the power you place in a word may be different from what I place in it. And I can fail at making you cry (or laugh!) because of the same differences.

I tend to be a lot more concerned with the energy behind the words - the difference between rote parroting of a text and actually connecting with the feelings within them.
My (mainly) astrological blog
http://sidselh.livejournal.com/ Last update 25. oct \'11

veggiewolf

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 3105
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 11:17:33 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?...

 
Words have both intrinsic and extrinsic power.  Communication of those words, be it through writing or speaking, shapes that power and changes it; it breathes life into the word(s).

The ability to shape the power of words is directly related to the balance of intrinsic/extrinsic power.  If the intrinsic power of the words is greater than the extrinsic power applied to it, the word will not be re-shaped.
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

Marilyn/Absentminded

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 975
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 01:00:57 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?


Words are toys.  Toys that require some skill, but still toys.  Beyond basic communication words can amuse, trick, manipulate, comfort, enrage, etc. etc..  You can make puns, poems, songs, rants, super-earnest speeches and limericks.

If you want to use words magically, you need to know clearly what result you want.  No throwing a few things together and hoping for the best.  Putting great intent into the wrong words will not produce the right results.  

A simple chant can power a private spell, large or small, as long as you and your intimates are the only ones who have to be familiar with it.  If your results depend on the rest of the world (aka the people with power) falling into line with your desires, you have to choose your words carefully.  Slogans have their own power, but causing specific action generally takes more.

You have to know what words will enrage or insult people, if that will produce your results.  You have to kiss up and dismiss in the right proportions, you have to make your words either memorable so they have force, or forgettable so the one you address them to comes away thinking they have come up with your idea themselves.

Magic with words requires planning, but also needs to be left unfinished until the last minute, so the circumstances of when they are spoken can be taken into account.  (Written words less so, of course - but they still need to sound fresh even when tweaked and edited and rehearsed)  Even a word that seems badly chosen can be important - giving the hearer a brief spurt of smugness or sympathy to further adjust your result.

None of this works if approached with too much earnestness, with too great a concern for truth, or with too much or too little respect for the hearer.  Words are one of the most flexible tools in existence, but should not be taken as seriously as stones.  They should be fun, or you burn out too easily trying to forge them into your immediate tool.

So, words are toys that do magic.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

Maps

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 703
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 05:49:52 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

**

In FlameKeeping, language has a lot of power.  It's what gives us the ability to have abstract thought and communicate it to each other.  Just look at the frustration a baby has, and we have with that baby, when s/he cannot express what's wrong.  Then language is learned and communication happens.

If language is to be useful, it must be clear.  Words have a lot of power.  Ask anyone that's crying because of what someone else said, and you can see that power.  It might not be a physical power, but words can worm their way into our minds and change the way we see.  We judge people by their words as well as their actions, and how well they line up.  Language has power.

 
Generally, sometimes words are of the utmost importance, sometimes they're not.

Religiously, I think this excerpt from Maya Cosmos about sums up where I'm leaning:
Quote
Spirits speak, whatever their material appearance, because words are a fundamental medium for Maya communication between this world and the Otherworld. They are not merely preamble to some magical action or a way of describing things that are manifested through tangible supernatural and natural forces like rain, lightning, and thunder. They are, rather, an essential conduit of those forces.

Aka, words have immense power that we, as individuals (and non-gods), cannot ever hope to fully control.

Devo

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 346
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://seshemherkekew.livejournal.com
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2012, 11:28:16 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

 
Both Shinto and Kemeticism proclaim that words are powerful. I believe in both cases, the words were created by gods, and imbued with power. They are there for us to use. In Kemeticism, it's Heka. In Shinto, sacred words are called Norito.

In both, all words are sacred. And in both, you should mind your words.


For myself in modern times, I think that I should use more thought in some of my words. I've noticed that when I'm around certain people, I automatically contemplate what I say more. However, when I'm around the avg. "American", I don't seem to think as much about what I say. Not sure why that is, but there you go.


-Devo
dA | FB | LJ | WP

Holdasown

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Location: West Virginia
  • Posts: 398
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 7
    • View Profile
    • Blog
  • Religion: Norse/Germanic Polytheists
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 11:51:10 am »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;56160
..


This is why I always tell people they can use spells as an outline but always make up their own words/chant.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:52:19 am by Holdasown »

iulla

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 157
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 12:26:19 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?


In the Religio Romana, the use of words and phrases is very important.

In everyday ritual, words are used as more of a contract with deity.  The language that you use in formal rituals has to be perfect - if you mess up, you risk offending the deity(s), and have to start over.  Everything has to be explicitly stated, and clearly too so as to find no loopholes.

On the more magical/mystical side, you have the Sator Square, which is a palindrome occurring four times over.  Just looking at one gives me a sense of awe and...something mystical, that this whatever-it-is was created.
dum spiro, spero

Lucus Antiquus:  my religious blog

EJay

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 269
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2012, 07:08:44 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
Words have a lot of power.........It might not be a physical power, but words can worm their way into our minds and change the way we see.  Language has power.


Words absolutely have power, both at the magical and mundane levels.  Every word we choose to use is an expression and release of power, thoughts made manifest in a very real and physical way.  And some words that get used again and again become stronger, much like neural pathways, which can give them more power, again at both magical and mundane levels.

"A picture may be worth a thousand words," but a picture appeals to sight alone.  A thousand words can immerse you into the scenario, which is why books tend to be better than movies.

You can spin a situation with word choice.  I wrote two paragraphs on a hike to Hanakapi'ai falls using the same experience but different adjectives.  One was a peaceful journey, the other was oppressive.

In ritual, where words are important, again it's like a neural pathway.  The more they're used, the stronger and easier the results become.

When we use words, we're chucking rocks in the pond, creating very real ripples.  They're manifestations of our thoughts and our thoughts are power.

Best~
EJay
If you understand, things are just as they are.  If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

drekfletch

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New England. On Winnipesaukee, to be more specific
  • Posts: 315
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Polytheist. Hellenic-ish
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 12:25:30 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

 
Words can be powerful.  They are tools.  The flow of energy around and through us is most heavily impacted by our mind, our intent.  There's some influence from the material world, but sound waves have negligible effect in and of themselves, being so insubstantial.  Words are powerful in their function of focusing our thoughts.  When we speak, we focus our thoughts and intent.  Because words are used casually to communicate trivial things, we've built up the internal connection that speech activates the effects of thought.  Most of us must 'say' something in order to focus it properly.

You also mentioned, primarily at that, words' power as a means of communication.  That power is shared through all methods of communication, and also comes from the thoughts being communicated, rather than the words themselves.  Sometimes it can seem that it is the words themselves that carry the power, because each word carries behind and before it different meanings and connotations.  Word choice can change the subtle meanings of the communication, which can sometimes be not so subtle.
There is no inherent meaning to life.  Stop looking and give your life meaning.
------------------------------------------
Chapter 91 of The Order War by L.E.Modesitt jr.  If I could quote the entire thing I would.

Sharysa

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 471
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 01:00:42 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?


Considering the Irish pagans thought that poets had the ability to take away a king's power, my religion most likely puts a LITTLE bit of stock in language. XD

And I just reminded myself today that words are made up of thoughts, and the spaces between them. Just like you can't make a picture without some empty space, you can't spit out a string of words with no pauses or breaks.

"Ifyouhavenospacebetweenyourwordsthenitsoundslikey ourthoughtsruntoofast." Reading this out loud with no time to breathe, will make you sound either caffeinated or hyperactive. If people can understand you at all, they'll need more time than they should to separate all the words into distinct thoughts.

"If you have no space between your words then it sounds like your thoughts run too fast." Technically this sounds "normal," but it would still take a minute for someone to get the meaning because there are two thoughts blurring together--neither of them are distinct from each other.

"If you have no space between your words, then it sounds like your thoughts run too fast." Most people will naturally pause this way because "words" is where the first thought would logically end.

"If you have no space--between your words--then it sounds like your thoughts run too fast." There are now three parts in this sentence just by putting a couple of dashes in, and there are two ways to view them: Either three separate thoughts have run together for some reason, or the speaker just needed to pause to find the other two parts of the thought.

Quote
If language is to be useful, it must be clear.


In addition to the myriad circumstances of the world, the spaces between one's words can make the exact same sentence sound frantic, uncertain, languid, or playful--which can make the situation clear as day or completely nonsensical.
On hiatus, but might pop in now and then. Just making it official.

My blog. 40% normal, 60% spiritual, 500% details.

Nycteris

  • Sr. Newbie
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 12
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2012, 10:32:55 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
In some religions, the word is the building block for everything.  There's a lot of discussion of being "true to one's word" or "language has power" in a lot of different religions.

So - what does your religion say about language?  Is it important?  Are words "just words" or more/different than that?

**

In FlameKeeping, language has a lot of power.  It's what gives us the ability to have abstract thought and communicate it to each other.  Just look at the frustration a baby has, and we have with that baby, when s/he cannot express what's wrong.  Then language is learned and communication happens.

If language is to be useful, it must be clear.  Words have a lot of power.  Ask anyone that's crying because of what someone else said, and you can see that power.  It might not be a physical power, but words can worm their way into our minds and change the way we see.  We judge people by their words as well as their actions, and how well they line up.  Language has power.

 
of course words have power, even physical, satanism has rules regarding the ethical use of words towards others, but besides that i believe they are also used to bundle thoughts, thoughts have power, and by bundling them in words they can have even more power
just my POV ;)
Ave Satana
~Nycteris

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • Posts: 2872
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 290
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2012, 01:28:13 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141
Are words "just words" or more/different than that?



Words are "just words," but that's a whole lotta "just" going on there. We take them for granted because they are so fundamental for our species--the abstract building blocks with which we construct our understanding of the world around us and subsequently communicate it.

I find words have their greatest spiritual impact for me in 2 contexts:

--IN NAMES. Anything important to me, I have to name. And it can't be just any name; I have to chew on it, make sure it sounds and feels right, conjures the right connotations. It connects me to the essence of the thing.

In a similar vein, learning the scientific name of an organism often deepens my understanding and appreciation for that organism. And taxonomic nomenclature gives us humans the illusion of command over the riot of Earth's life. Sort of like knowing an individual's "true" name.
 
--IN MYTH. Using our abstraction toolkit--language--to create an abstraction of specific experience--story--in an attempt to explore the most important truths about ourselves and our universe. There is no more profoundly human nor higher pursuit, IMHO, with the possible exception of making music.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Wickerman

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 153
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2012, 01:43:38 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;56141

**

Just look at the frustration a baby has, and we have with that baby, when s/he cannot express what's wrong.  Then language is learned and communication happens.


 
Some folks, my wife included, have started to teach sign to both very young children, and developmentally delayed ones. The frustration level goes way down as does the behavioral issues.
"Don\'t take life too seriously, or you\'ll never get out of it alive." (Bugs Bunny)

somnium

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 3
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Power of Language
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 07:01:33 pm »
Quote from: Stardancer;56145
Words are just words - it's the intentions, meanings, connotations, inflections that are important. .


I agree, hence the title the POWER of words. Words can hold any meaning attached to them, they can be useless, or the can meaningful. They can align directly to the Will of existence itself to craft, hence speechcraft. Whaatever vaule one assigns to them is in fact true, even if it is not true for another. I like the quote "to thine own self be true", although confrontational at times, is self impowering. Another view is listening to words from different value points, of positions of observation. When one changes their perspective of words do the words you are hearing change? Thus the release of old values to assign new ones. Words only carry the meaning we are trying to convey through our seperation, yet on closer observation we are not so seperate. it is the understanding one conveys into words, the energy itself. Perhps in some places words are not needed, for in some places maybe we are one, and wee already know what you are going to say. then one needs only to listent to the flow of conscious awareness into the environment.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
18 Replies
3693 Views
Last post September 06, 2013, 11:00:44 am
by luc798
33 Replies
2412 Views
Last post July 14, 2013, 08:58:37 am
by Oíche
14 Replies
1791 Views
Last post March 30, 2015, 04:14:48 pm
by Ghost235
2 Replies
1084 Views
Last post August 22, 2015, 09:50:28 am
by Materialist
5 Replies
363 Views
Last post November 04, 2018, 01:10:50 pm
by Kylara

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 29
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 3
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Senior Staff:
Darkhawk

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall