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Author Topic: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math  (Read 5643 times)

Gnowan

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2016, 05:13:26 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;187594
Let me begin by qualifying - calculus is fairly simple to start ... You must admit that the formulas that are used in statistics are largely derived from calculus - differential calculus, integral calculus, not analysis. It's rather like taking a car and "souping it up" to spec. Neither calculus nor statistics requires an understanding of mathematics that goes beyond intermediate algebra. In neither case, must the student do more than memorize the formulas. True, the professional statistician is quite a different creature from the sophomore college student - but even he/she took that Stat 100 course ... I have won the argument - based on my argument - that Calc 100 should come before & be req  to taking Stat 100.

 
Actually, back when I was a math major, calculus was a prerequisite to statistics.

I took calculus 3 times--AP in high school, then 3rd trimester when I started college, then decided to take it again after taking a break from college to backpack through Europe.

The third time, the light bulb turned on and it was no longer about memorizing formulas.  It finally clicked.  I knew what I was doing and why I was doing it.  There was just a beauty in it.  I've never really cared for applied math, I just love the beauty in number.

DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2016, 05:15:41 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;187846
Actually, back when I was a math major, calculus was a prerequisite to statistics.

I took calculus 3 times--AP in high school, then 3rd trimester when I started college, then decided to take it again after taking a break from college to backpack through Europe.

The third time, the light bulb turned on and it was no longer about memorizing formulas.  It finally clicked.  I knew what I was doing and why I was doing it.  There was just a beauty in it.  I've never really cared for applied math, I just love the beauty in number.

Many Depts don't require calculus before taking statistics, especially for students w/other majors that require statistics (psychology, sociology, etc). These students are expected to get theory, memorize formulas, & plug in numbers. In some cases, they don't even have to memorize the formulas, they have software; it's just a matter of knowing which number to plug in where (which is the numerator, which is the denominator) ... I still say that there is nothing wrong w/statistics, so long as it is done in good faith - or, so long as the person looking at the the data knows how to look at data.

Math is beautiful - nothing more beautiful. I can hardly type thinking about it. I love nothing more than math. But statistics is one of its children - a stepchild, yes, but one of its children, nonetheless. It's the only social science that has so much math in it (economics is a distant second) - just as physics is the only natural science that has so much math in it.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 05:16:30 pm by DIASPORA-1963 »
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
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RecycledBenedict

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2016, 08:19:58 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;187474
I just want to make it clear that in panentheism there is no Creator God as in the Abrahamic religions.  God Is and Thou Art God.


Panentheism and panendeism does not necessarily exclude the notion of a Creator God/Ultimate Cause/First Mover/Great Architect Of The Universe. Acts 17.28 is an example of Christian panentheism, and Jewish Kabbalah - especially in some of its Hasidic forms - is panentheistic.

Gnowan

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2016, 12:15:12 am »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;187955
Panentheism and panendeism does not necessarily exclude the notion of a Creator God/Ultimate Cause/First Mover/Great Architect Of The Universe. Acts 17.28 is an example of Christian panentheism, and Jewish Kabbalah - especially in some of its Hasidic forms - is panentheistic.

 
I raised my son by misquoting Jesus:  "Love God and Love Your Neighbor as Yourself."

You're absolutely right.  Panentheism is found in a lot of the Abrahamic religions and your verse is just one of many that support this idea.

This is why I've studied Pythagoras, because he traveled extensively and combined the mysteries of so many cultures and uses mathematics (the language of God) to express our relationship to God, The Universe, and Everything.

One of the things I've been playing with is the Kabbalah and the Tetrakytis and the geometry of both.

When you read the Bible, the idea of Creator/First Cause is not out of line with panentheism.  I believe we are God's way of looking at God.  The Bible has many insights into this ideology, so if folks can get past the fundamental part of the book and how fundamentalists tell them how to interpret it, there is so much juicy stuff in the Bible!

I think it's a good thing for folks to get away from Christianity but then to go back to it with open eyes when the time is ripe.  Folks raised as Christians often resent the teachings forced upon them, but when you go back and re-read the Bible with objective eyes, there's so much to gain from both the Torah and the New Testament (I haven't read the Quran, so have no comments there).

I believe in "All in God" and "Thou Art God."  I haven't found anything yet that goes against these tenets.

~Gnowann

DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 02:54:20 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;187970
I raised my son by misquoting Jesus:  "Love God and Love Your Neighbor as Yourself."

You're absolutely right.  Panentheism is found in a lot of the Abrahamic religions and your verse is just one of many that support this idea.

This is why I've studied Pythagoras, because he traveled extensively and combined the mysteries of so many cultures and uses mathematics (the language of God) to express our relationship to God, The Universe, and Everything.

One of the things I've been playing with is the Kabbalah and the Tetrakytis and the geometry of both.

When you read the Bible, the idea of Creator/First Cause is not out of line with panentheism.  I believe we are God's way of looking at God.  The Bible has many insights into this ideology, so if folks can get past the fundamental part of the book and how fundamentalists tell them how to interpret it, there is so much juicy stuff in the Bible!

I think it's a good thing for folks to get away from Christianity but then to go back to it with open eyes when the time is ripe.  Folks raised as Christians often resent the teachings forced upon them, but when you go back and re-read the Bible with objective eyes, there's so much to gain from both the Torah and the New Testament (I haven't read the Quran, so have no comments there).

I believe in "All in God" and "Thou Art God."  I haven't found anything yet that goes against these tenets.

~Gnowann

 
Why do you assume that mathematics is the "language of God?" Mathematicians are still debating whether mathematics is a uniquely human way of looking at the Universe. Mathematics is a language, after all - so, why should it be so different than any other human language? A linguist from another solar system would have to study English and compare to his/her/its own language to understand it - so, why not also mathematics? Bertrand Russell freely admits that math's origins are a posteriori - that anything a priori about mathematics is speculative. Until it can be established that mathematics is truly a priori, how can it be even postulated that mathematics might be God's language?
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

Gnowan

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2016, 02:19:41 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;188172
Why do you assume that mathematics is the "language of God?" Mathematicians are still debating whether mathematics is a uniquely human way of looking at the Universe. Mathematics is a language, after all - so, why should it be so different than any other human language? A linguist from another solar system would have to study English and compare to his/her/its own language to understand it - so, why not also mathematics? Bertrand Russell freely admits that math's origins are a posteriori - that anything a priori about mathematics is speculative. Until it can be established that mathematics is truly a priori, how can it be even postulated that mathematics might be God's language?

 
You, of all people here, know what I'm talking about.  Mathematics, going back to Pythagoras, is about pure Number.  Calculus is not the language of God.  Calculus is man's way of trying to find our place and make sense of God and use it to work within the physical parameters of God.

But Number is different.  We touch upon Number with our mathematics.  And it's beautiful.  We touch upon the Divine when we find those patterns, those shapes, those truths that come to us through Number.

I know it's hard to understand, but there is so much beauty in Number and you find it all around.  Majoring in biology was finding Number in Life.

I guess we need to differentiate Number and Mathematics from number and mathematics.

~Gnowann

DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Pantheism, Panentheism, Greeks, and Math
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2016, 10:14:40 am »
Quote from: Gnowan;188757
You, of all people here, know what I'm talking about.  Mathematics, going back to Pythagoras, is about pure Number.  Calculus is not the language of God.  Calculus is man's way of trying to find our place and make sense of God and use it to work within the physical parameters of God.

But Number is different.  We touch upon Number with our mathematics.  And it's beautiful.  We touch upon the Divine when we find those patterns, those shapes, those truths that come to us through Number.

I know it's hard to understand, but there is so much beauty in Number and you find it all around.  Majoring in biology was finding Number in Life.

I guess we need to differentiate Number and Mathematics from number and mathematics.

~Gnowann

... Number is an idea ... The number two, for instance - not the numeral "two", "2", "II" - or any other way that we could choose to represent it in symbols - but the number itself - well, it's an idea - an idea that is the sum, difference, product & quotient of infinite many operations upon other numbers: (1 + 1), (3 - 1), (4 * 1/2), (6/3) -- and on ad infinitum - those are all representations of the number two, the idea, two - but what else is two but an idea?
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

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