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Author Topic: Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions  (Read 1738 times)

Kaio

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Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions
« on: February 26, 2015, 11:47:03 pm »
I've been thinking about possible religious and political consequences of what can be seen as taking one step further into a (more) traditional - and so, (more) embedded/holistic - religious practice in the context of contemporary pagan religions that were around before the Abrahamization of the area(s) associated with them and informed by the their historical precedents (when these are recorded).
 Humanism is all over the Western world (and the regions that aren't Western but have a deep relationship to the Western world). Most of us have a humanist sense of justice or lean towards it.
 What about the pagan religion we practice? How did its ancient practisants grasp the notion of social differences f.e.?

 Perhaps one's take on this question depends on whether one is satisfied with the "modern", compartmentalized way to deal with questions like these or one looks for a more holistic way based on one's religion. OTOH I think this can be a timely debate if one takes into account the ongoing disputes(?) concerning social justice elsewhere on this forum.
When in Rome do as the Romans do. (Ambrose)

Faemon

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Re: Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 02:03:04 am »
Quote from: Kaio;171824
What about the pagan religion we practice? How did its ancient practisants grasp the notion of social differences f.e.?

I don't trust my past life regressions, so :p I can't speak to how each individual understood it…

…But I think that social issues were always around. Ancient Greeks had slaves and barbarians (as in non-Greek speakers, if I recall correctly, whose language would always sound like "Barbarbarbarbar"), for example, but whether that influenced the state religion or the state religion influenced the culture or society is really one big feedback loop.

I think that feedback loop dynamic would apply to any society that you can identify, and all the aspects in it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 02:03:56 am by Faemon »
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Kaio

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Re: Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 09:41:51 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;171831
I don't trust my past life regressions, so :p I can't speak to how each individual understood it…

…But I think that social issues were always around. Ancient Greeks had slaves and barbarians (as in non-Greek speakers, if I recall correctly, whose language would always sound like "Barbarbarbarbar"), for example, but whether that influenced the state religion or the state religion influenced the culture or society is really one big feedback loop.

I think that feedback loop dynamic would apply to any society that you can identify, and all the aspects in it.


 I think knowing what each ancient individual thought is not necessary for us to talk about recorded views that ancient people had on many questions.
 
 It seems that I didn't make myself clear, anyway.
 
 This thread is not an attempt to debate whether there were what we modern people call "social issues" among ancient peoples, but how these peoples saw questions very differently from us and possible consequences of these differences for one's religious life or life as a whole.

 I think Rígsþula f.e. is about how human beings' social statuses have a divine origin. This means these statuses are not historically/socially constructed according to the view that this text shows. This also means at least one political notion related to that context has nothing to do with equal rights, democracy, merit and everything  some of us might call social justice.

 Stoicism is about not fighting the world. It's about thinking human beings can't control a great part of reality. This is the opposite of humanism.

 What I'm trying to say is that there are alternative - and religious - views on many questions from pagan times - and religions - that may be adopted if one choses not to follow the modern, compartmentalized habit of treating one's religion as something more or less set aside of the rest of one's life, that is what happens when one has modern views on some questions and tries to practice some form of a non-modern religion at the same time.
When in Rome do as the Romans do. (Ambrose)

Faemon

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Re: Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 12:57:38 am »
Quote from: Kaio;171897
I think knowing what each ancient individual thought is not necessary for us to talk about recorded views that ancient people had on many questions.
 
 It seems that I didn't make myself clear, anyway.
 
 This thread is not an attempt to debate whether there were what we modern people call "social issues" among ancient peoples, but how these peoples saw questions very differently from us and possible consequences of these differences for one's religious life or life as a whole.

...

What I'm trying to say is that there are alternative - and religious - views on many questions from pagan times - and religions - that may be adopted if one choses not to follow the modern, compartmentalized habit of treating one's religion as something more or less set aside of the rest of one's life, that is what happens when one has modern views on some questions and tries to practice some form of a non-modern religion at the same time.

 
On recorded views, I think they would be recorded because they were remarkable. It's a rare historian who can write down what is obvious to their society, and the base assumptions about life that the society takes for granted.

I think that these come into definition through culture clash, which can be national (distance) or through eras and ages of time.


My understanding, for another example, of the effect of Hinduism on Indian society is that it became a way to reinforce a caste system: because the cosmological model in the religion could be used to say that if you're born to a poor family, you...er...should be. But that's an interpretation that can change while keeping the cosmological model.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Humanism and non-modern religion(s): possible questions
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 02:30:25 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;171922
On recorded views, I think they would be recorded because they were remarkable. It's a rare historian who can write down what is obvious to their society, and the base assumptions about life that the society takes for granted.

...

 
You know, this is an interesting point and one a lot of reconstruction-minded people run into: the remarkable, the unique, and the noteworthy are most of what was written down.  It can be amazingly difficult to find records of daily life; Kemetics, for example, often bemoan the fact that the marvelous records the Egyptians left mostly cover the actions of the priests and royalty...and not everyone wants to be a priest or set themselves up as god-king.  Some people just want to hoe the onions, and it can be difficult to do that if you don't know how.
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