collapse

* Recent Posts

Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Today at 08:31:19 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Today at 07:54:40 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Sefiru
[Today at 07:44:49 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Sophia C
[Today at 07:21:31 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by SirPalomides
[Today at 07:13:48 pm]

Author Topic: Does Causality Exist?  (Read 3699 times)

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 07:18:30 pm »
:whis:
Quote from: Sefiru;150593
Well, just because there isn't an absolute reference point for the spatial dimensions, we don't say that motion is an illusion. So why would lacking an absolute temporal reference point make the flow of time an illusion?

 
An illusion is something that is different from what it seems to be.  That doesn't mean it isn't real at all.

I would say that motion is an illusion.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10311
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 296
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 07:49:51 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150560
That's kind of what I'm getting at.  Once we step outside of it there is nothing against which to measure the perceived flow.

There's also no evidence of anything outside reality to step into or measure things against.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10311
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 296
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 07:50:48 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150594
I would say that motion is an illusion.

Why would you say that?
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

Sefiru

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 2570
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 891
    • View Profile
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2014, 04:58:06 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150594

 An illusion is something that is different from what it seems to be.  That doesn't mean it isn't real at all.


Hang on, I think I need you to define your terms here.

According to standard usage, the word "illusion" refers to a perception which is wrong, that is, which is different from some objective reality.

Whereas we seem to agree that when it comes to space-time, no viewpoint is privileged over any other, and thus there is no objective reality. That is, there are many cases of "what something seems to be" but no one of them can be singled out as "what something is".

So you appear to be using the word "illusion" in a different way than I'm used to. Can you describe what you mean by it, please?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me on AO3 & Deviantart

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2014, 07:48:17 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;150639
There's also no evidence of anything outside reality to step into or measure things against.

 
Exactly.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2014, 07:55:48 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;150677
Hang on, I think I need you to define your terms here.

According to standard usage, the word "illusion" refers to a perception which is wrong, that is, which is different from some objective reality.



 
An illusion is something that is different from what it appears to be as I am defining it.  That doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2014, 08:06:43 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;150640
Why would you say that?

 
Because I am not convinced that time flows except relative to our location within it, that the flow is an illusion, and that affects how I would understand notions of change, motion, self, continuity, and free will.  Motion requires speed, and speed affects how we experience time.

On a side note, I rejected libertarian free will before reflecting or reading about space-time based on other types of reasoning, so the notions of space-time I have now only confirmed that in a different way.  I prefer to speak of volitional behavior rather than free will.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
17 Replies
3435 Views
Last post January 12, 2013, 02:02:43 am
by Paradoxum
2 Replies
1585 Views
Last post May 24, 2013, 03:16:31 am
by Dragonoake
25 Replies
4881 Views
Last post December 28, 2015, 05:50:35 pm
by Lionrhod
99 Replies
12716 Views
Last post July 14, 2017, 03:27:50 pm
by Owl
21 Replies
3981 Views
Last post November 11, 2017, 11:48:36 am
by Naunau

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 200
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 3
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal