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Author Topic: Your view of time  (Read 1408 times)

EclecticWheel

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Your view of time
« on: July 16, 2018, 08:15:03 pm »
I don't personally have a view of time other than it doesn't flow.  I have been reading up on it, though, to get an understanding.  The eternalist block space theory of time suggested by some physicists has at times delighted and at other times scared the shit out of me.  (I'll provide a link below as I am having trouble inserting hyperlinks on this site.)  I'd like to think that I'll just die one day and that will be it for me -- not that my life is eternally encased in a slice of spatio-temporal locations.  Just in case that theory of time is true I know it is imperative to make the best of my life now.

What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-reality-of-time/
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Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Sobekemiti

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 11:51:55 pm »
I don't personally have a view of time other than it doesn't flow.  I have been reading up on it, though, to get an understanding.  The eternalist block space theory of time suggested by some physicists has at times delighted and at other times scared the shit out of me.  (I'll provide a link below as I am having trouble inserting hyperlinks on this site.)  I'd like to think that I'll just die one day and that will be it for me -- not that my life is eternally encased in a slice of spatio-temporal locations.  Just in case that theory of time is true I know it is imperative to make the best of my life now.

What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-reality-of-time/

My view of time came from reading Dinotopia as a teenager, where time there is thought of as a spiral. It's honestly stuck with me, and I can't really see time any other way now. It encapsulates both the cyclical nature of time, and patterns that repeat, as well as the sense of moving forward. (I say sense bc the passage of time is filled with wibbly wobbly physics stuff I do not understand based on where you are and how fast you're moving.) But this spiralling also fits quite well into a Kemetic worldview, with the constant cycling of the day and night, and the repetition of the creation of the world anew every morning. It kinda works well for me.
Sobekemiti | Queer Polytheist, Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/them
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Sefiru

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 06:51:02 pm »
The eternalist block space theory of time suggested by some physicists has at times delighted and at other times scared the shit out of me. 

My own view of time is similar to the block theory with regards to the past, but not the future. I think of time as a growing crystal; the past exists in a fixed form, like the body of the crystal. The future is not yet fixed, like dissolved minerals that will later form part of the crystal, an what we experience as the Present is like the surface of the crystal, where new time is continuously being formed.

Or, put another way: this moment, Now, has never happened before, but from now on, it always will have happened.

This fits in nicely with the Kemetic concept of the First Time and how all rituals are held to take place in it.

The crystal metaphor also accounts for causality (because the existing shape of the crystal will influence subsequent growth) without being wholly deterministic, which are two big problems I have with the eternalist block theory. I mean, if time really is just a big ol' block and progression of time is an illusion, then why is causality so consistently observable?

On the other hand, strict determinism just seems like a way to avoid the idea that the future is inherently unknowable. (Of course a determinist would say that I'm avoiding the idea that all of my actions are pre-determined.)

Yei

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 05:40:14 pm »
I don't personally have a view of time other than it doesn't flow.  I have been reading up on it, though, to get an understanding.  The eternalist block space theory of time suggested by some physicists has at times delighted and at other times scared the shit out of me.  (I'll provide a link below as I am having trouble inserting hyperlinks on this site.)  I'd like to think that I'll just die one day and that will be it for me -- not that my life is eternally encased in a slice of spatio-temporal locations.  Just in case that theory of time is true I know it is imperative to make the best of my life now.

What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-reality-of-time/

The Maya believe in 3 different types of time. The first one is current time, which is when we live. The second is the before time, which is basically prehistory. The interesting one is the third, divine time, which exists outside existence. I generally follow this.

It is obvious that one day follows another and that each year slips into the next. However, this procession is centred in the highly cyclical divine time, which permeates through into material time. Therefore, although each day is 'unique' it contains within several interacting cycles that constantly repeat. This gives time a rhythm, as it repeats events over an over. Never exactly, but in a way that resembles the past.

The description of time as a spiral seems apt enough for me.

Riothamus12

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 11:36:46 pm »
I don't personally have a view of time other than it doesn't flow.  I have been reading up on it, though, to get an understanding.  The eternalist block space theory of time suggested by some physicists has at times delighted and at other times scared the shit out of me.  (I'll provide a link below as I am having trouble inserting hyperlinks on this site.)  I'd like to think that I'll just die one day and that will be it for me -- not that my life is eternally encased in a slice of spatio-temporal locations.  Just in case that theory of time is true I know it is imperative to make the best of my life now.

What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-reality-of-time/

My general view is that things are cyclical and eternalist. However, I don't believe that time as humans envision it really exists. It's a construct, albeit a highly useful one. The closest thing to "time" as most people think of it that exists are the rotations of the earth and revolutions of the sun that humans used to develop that system. You cannot travel back or forward in time in the sense many works of science fiction imagine it (though it's a fun concept to play around with in the concept of fiction). That is my view.
https://inthespiritofconversation.wordpress.com/
I started a blog. Feel free to peruse. It's still in it's early stages and I have to write more, so do bare with me if it's all a little basic so far.

Altair

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 07:36:39 pm »
What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?

Since I tend to work these things out by creating myths, it's probably telling that the longest myth I've written was devoted to the subject of the nature of time and, inextricably and perhaps more importantly, fate: Are we the masters of our own, or is our destiny already unalterably written?

The conclusion I came to: Yes.

I came down on all sides of the issue, which suggests either a comfort on my part in holding seemingly disparate views simultaneously, or noncommittal confusion/still working out my beliefs. In short--

  • The principal god of time suggests the "block" theory, in that he perceives it all simultaneously; it has all already happened. He constantly screws up his verb tenses because to him, it's all the same. He also perceives all the variations, suggesting a multiverse of parallel universes where events diverge. (He alone has access to a World Tree, or more accurately, Worlds Tree, each branch growing from a different course of events.)
  • But his son, the god of fate, was raised by mortals and so perceives time linearly, with the option to view past/present/future by riding one of his father's corresponding 3 horses. So I guess, regardless of the "block" theory, I think our limited view of that "block" overrides it in any practical, day-to-day sense--with the possibility of weird psychic experiences where we shatter those boundaries.
  • About fate...that god runs into trouble when he sees the future, resulting in him evermore maintaining silence about it but writing it all down in indecipherable code. This would seem to suggest our fate is fixed. But again I think I'm hedging, because his dad the Uber time god pushes back on that idea, saying that yes our fate is written, but it's written by our deeds and decisions. We still determine where we go, even if to him we've already made the decisions and gone there.
I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it made a moving enough yarn that I felt compelled to write it all down.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Altair

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 07:46:22 pm »
My view of time came from reading Dinotopia as a teenager

For me it was a Joan Baez song, "Three Horses" (lyrics here), that tunneled into my brain as a child and never left.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Owl

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 12:46:16 am »
For me it was a Joan Baez song, "Three Horses" (lyrics here), that tunneled into my brain as a child and never left.
My mother used to listen to that dong - along with a lot of other Joan Baez


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Owl

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 12:48:33 am »
Since I tend to work these things out by creating myths, it's probably telling that the longest myth I've written was devoted to the subject of the nature of time and, inextricably and perhaps more importantly, fate: Are we the masters of our own, or is our destiny already unalterably written?

The conclusion I came to: Yes.

I came down on all sides of the issue, which suggests either a comfort on my part in holding seemingly disparate views simultaneously, or noncommittal confusion/still working out my beliefs. In short--

  • The principal god of time suggests the "block" theory, in that he perceives it all simultaneously; it has all already happened. He constantly screws up his verb tenses because to him, it's all the same. He also perceives all the variations, suggesting a multiverse of parallel universes where events diverge. (He alone has access to a World Tree, or more accurately, Worlds Tree, each branch growing from a different course of events.)
  • But his son, the god of fate, was raised by mortals and so perceives time linearly, with the option to view past/present/future by riding one of his father's corresponding 3 horses. So I guess, regardless of the "block" theory, I think our limited view of that "block" overrides it in any practical, day-to-day sense--with the possibility of weird psychic experiences where we shatter those boundaries.
  • About fate...that god runs into trouble when he sees the future, resulting in him evermore maintaining silence about it but writing it all down in indecipherable code. This would seem to suggest our fate is fixed. But again I think I'm hedging, because his dad the Uber time god pushes back on that idea, saying that yes our fate is written, but it's written by our deeds and decisions. We still determine where we go, even if to him we've already made the decisions and gone there.
I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it made a moving enough yarn that I felt compelled to write it all down.
I makes sense, in one of those ‘don’t look at it too hard or your head will hurt’ ways. There are things that I can grok as a whole, but only as a whole.


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Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

arete

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 12:28:30 pm »
What is your view of time?  Does it relate to your spirituality and how you live your life?
Time exists and for mortals like us is of great importance. Make each minute count.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

JupiterSkies

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 10:48:04 pm »
Since I tend to work these things out by creating myths, it's probably telling that the longest myth I've written was devoted to the subject of the nature of time and, inextricably and perhaps more importantly, fate: Are we the masters of our own, or is our destiny already unalterably written?

The conclusion I came to: Yes.

I came down on all sides of the issue, which suggests either a comfort on my part in holding seemingly disparate views simultaneously, or noncommittal confusion/still working out my beliefs. In short--

  • The principal god of time suggests the "block" theory, in that he perceives it all simultaneously; it has all already happened. He constantly screws up his verb tenses because to him, it's all the same. He also perceives all the variations, suggesting a multiverse of parallel universes where events diverge. (He alone has access to a World Tree, or more accurately, Worlds Tree, each branch growing from a different course of events.)
  • But his son, the god of fate, was raised by mortals and so perceives time linearly, with the option to view past/present/future by riding one of his father's corresponding 3 horses. So I guess, regardless of the "block" theory, I think our limited view of that "block" overrides it in any practical, day-to-day sense--with the possibility of weird psychic experiences where we shatter those boundaries.
  • About fate...that god runs into trouble when he sees the future, resulting in him evermore maintaining silence about it but writing it all down in indecipherable code. This would seem to suggest our fate is fixed. But again I think I'm hedging, because his dad the Uber time god pushes back on that idea, saying that yes our fate is written, but it's written by our deeds and decisions. We still determine where we go, even if to him we've already made the decisions and gone there.
I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it made a moving enough yarn that I felt compelled to write it all down.

I was content to lurk in this thread, but this myth of yours... is pretty much exactly how I've come to terms with it.  There has been much ebb and flow with two of my deities who are concerned with Time and from experience, and the last seven years of intermittent discussion with them, I'm not sure I could word the concepts of Time as I've perceived it much better than this.

I don't often share the Time aspects of my practice, though the few people I work with in real life would argue it is completely fundamental to what I do.  Trying to put it into words where I can't give someone a body language context still makes me a bit uncomfortable (I talk a lot of with my facial expressions and hands).  So thank you, because I can't adequately describe the sensation of seeing this written out in words.  It might be trite, but accurate to say I'm having a spiritual experience in response.

And so I'll float off this thread with a lot to think about on a lighter note.  If I had a dollar for every time I've:
  • Pondered something practice-related out loud and heard "Spoilers!" in response
  • Heard a variation of "Oh, this isn't the you I thought it was.  You sound delightful, I can't wait to meet you in the future, but right now I've got to fly!" (the follow-up encounter that actually happens has been three days to three YEARS later...)
  • Or a variant of "Can you tell me something about your day?  There's a note on my desk that says 'Ask Eva about her day, August 12, 2018' and my suspicion is, you're about to tell me something that sends me off running for something I don't yet know that I need to do.'"
I'd take us all out for a good cuppa somewhere.
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I write, mostly poetry.

ehbowen

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Re: Your view of time
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 01:09:55 am »
And so I'll float off this thread with a lot to think about on a lighter note.  If I had a dollar for every time I've:
  • Pondered something practice-related out loud and heard "Spoilers!" in response
  • Heard a variation of "Oh, this isn't the you I thought it was.  You sound delightful, I can't wait to meet you in the future, but right now I've got to fly!" (the follow-up encounter that actually happens has been three days to three YEARS later...)
  • Or a variant of "Can you tell me something about your day?  There's a note on my desk that says 'Ask Eva about her day, August 12, 2018' and my suspicion is, you're about to tell me something that sends me off running for something I don't yet know that I need to do.'"
I'd take us all out for a good cuppa somewhere.

That little list of yours actually dovetails very well with my own ideas. My own view of time is akin to a cross between a tree and a tapestry. I envision an ongoing struggle between divine entities who are either attempting to help us progress along our path or else are hitting the "undo" key to reset us backwards in time so that they can attempt to steer us in a different direction. On either side, their motives may be benevolent, malicious, or simply curious or self-interested. The "tapestry" is woven and the "tree" grows as our souls trace out these varying paths time and time and time again. The more we retrace a specific "branch", the stronger it becomes. If we choose not to retrace a branch, it is abandoned and becomes the stuff of dreams or imagination.

As this goes on, I believe that the outside divine (not to mention human) observers are seeing four aspects or representations of our souls. First, there is our "core being" or true soul. That's the real you, the fundamental, irreducible "you." Next there are the echoes. The echoes really are our personality, but they represent time tracks which we have followed from points of departure which are either in the past or the future from where your core personality is right "now". As an example, I think that there are time tracks with points of departure decades in the past where I entered an ongoing relationship with my divine Girlfriend...and others where I did the same with my guardian angels. Perhaps other, human, personalities as well...Sue from England was a really sweet girl! But those echoes represent what "could have been", not what IS...although I do believe that, after I close escrow in the here and now, those echoes can be "filled in" and become alternate realities as strong and as "real" as this one is.

There may also be echoes which diverge from points of departure in the future...I'd eventually like to be able to give my Girlfriend a pleasant surprise by going back in time myself and encouraging her to "stick with it." I think she's done as much from her end; I see the time she gave me the ride to a hospital as a specific example of her reaching back in time to encourage me. But in much the way as you've heard, "Oh, this isn't the you I thought it was," I think that those echoes of "me" have told her, "Not yet, but you're getting close...keep looking!"

Unfortunately, though, I also believe that there are malicious implementations of this concept, which I refer to as "copies" or "counterfeits". A counterfeit is exactly what it sounds like...someone who looks like you, sounds like you, pretends to be you, but who in fact is being driven by a completely different and usually malicious personality. It's easy for someone from my background to blame Old Scratch, but I think he doesn't get personally involved except in very rare cases. I think it's more likely to be some low-level spiritual personality who's either trying to gain power and influence or else to escape whatever his/her current fate may be and crash into a better future by riding your coattails.

The counterfeits may "wedge in" from points of departure well in the past, so they can be very convincing for months, years, or even decades...they're copying your every move from you or your echo. Still, at some point the tracks will diverge enough so that they lose sight of you. Without your real personality as a guide, others who are watching you will see a personality change which may be abrupt or gradual. How many times have you heard someone whose marriage is on the rocks plaintively cry, "He/She's not the same person I married!" In many cases, I believe that to be literal truth. Finally, there are what I call the copies. I see them as a desperation move from the enemy whenever those on our side are getting close. Like Hufflepuff's cup in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, they're intended simply to frustrate any attempt to reach you and discourage either you or those who are fighting for you into giving up.

You see, I believe that we ourselves choose the "tracks" we follow...hard as that may seem today for those in Rwanda and similar. When we give up on or abandon a track, it becomes imagination or a dream...what "could have been." In my own case, while I have had dreams of the Girl I so very much want to meet again, they were specifically from points of departure well in the past. If I had lived those out...well, I wouldn't be here and now (some of you might like that!). But it would also mean that the spiritual personality whom I see as my enemy wouldn't have to worry about me in this corner of time...and I think he'd use the sanctuary to plan revenge.

But the closer and closer I get to the point which I believe my God has in store for me, the less and less freedom of action my enemy has. I trust that eventually that freedom of action will go to zero. Oh, not absolute zero...I don't want to see him frozen in ice like some comic book villain...but I think it'll be limited to scratching tally marks on the walls of his cell!
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

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