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Author Topic: Getting chastised for using a money spell  (Read 7649 times)

Wind

Getting chastised for using a money spell
« on: September 17, 2012, 02:48:06 am »
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money. A few people there say it literally takes away money from someone else because they consider money finite, and one exceptionally nutty lady think's it's a crime the government should look into because if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.

I think it's time to find out the thoughts of people here.

I have no problem with a money spell and I don't believe they kill or take away from anyone. I also don't call others immoral for doing them.

Can we get a poll here?  I respect everyone's views either way. But to make sure this doesn't go by way the other forum, lets have even the people that consider money spells are immoral, try to respect others beliefs too.

Wind

Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 03:18:53 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208

I think it's time to find out the thoughts of people here.


 

Perhaps I'm posting in the wrong spot?

Euryalus

Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 03:46:08 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money. A few people there say it literally takes away money from someone else because they consider money finite, and one exceptionally nutty lady think's it's a crime the government should look into because if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.

I think it's time to find out the thoughts of people here.

I have no problem with a money spell and I don't believe they kill or take away from anyone. I also don't call others immoral for doing them.

Can we get a poll here?  I respect everyone's views either way. But to make sure this doesn't go by way the other forum, lets have even the people that consider money spells are immoral, try to respect others beliefs too.

 
While I don't generally practice magic (yay being a broke, unemployed college student who can't afford the supplies!), I've never seen or heard of a money spell that wasn't just a variant on the concept of luck spells emphasizing raises and employment, or some form of psychological reinforcement.  While money is finite, and this could theoretically be viewed as taking money from someone, (e.g. a raise you get is a raise someone else didn't,) the assumption that a money spell is immoral on these grounds would require a lot of philosophical weirdness/insanity to render coherent.

Also, that bit about the money spell killing the relative sounds like something out of a chain e-mail from the late 90s with every possible variation on "fwd:" attached to the subject and ending in a passive-aggressive threat.  (And on the off-chance that it is true, just how incompetent do you have to be to try to write a simple luck spell and instead wind up with a curse powerful enough to kill a relative!?)

Tana

Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 03:50:20 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208



I usually don't do this.
But allow me to link you to my blog.
I've written there about the very thing, you're asking.

Money Matters
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 04:20:04 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208
... if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.


... unless a bank does it, then it's called 'quantitative easing.'  

I don't understand the mindset where trading 8 to 10 hours of your day in exchange for money is considered acceptable, but doing a spell for it is somehow immoral.  
You need money to feed and clothe yourself; you want money so you can do both (and more) in relative comfort.  

I have done money workings in the past, usually to boost business at the job.  Way I look at it: if the business makes money, I can pay my employees and eventually hire/train/promote more.  They can then take the money they earn and feed their families.  All that money gets spent in the community, benefiting other businesses and employers.  And the gov't gets its cut, too, benefiting social programs.  A ripple effect.  If my humble little money spell helped that process in any way, good.
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 06:03:39 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money. A few people there say it literally takes away money from someone else because they consider money finite, and one exceptionally nutty lady think's it's a crime the government should look into because if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.

I think it's time to find out the thoughts of people here.

I have no problem with a money spell and I don't believe they kill or take away from anyone. I also don't call others immoral for doing them.

Can we get a poll here?  I respect everyone's views either way. But to make sure this doesn't go by way the other forum, lets have even the people that consider money spells are immoral, try to respect others beliefs too.

 
I live in a universe of abundance, money as I know it is just an agreed upon concept.  And I receive, what I really think I deserve.  I have notice throughout my life that all my needs are met, it is the things I want, that causes hardship.

 As far as creating it out of thin air, do you mean creating, or printing it?

If I manifest a work of art, song, or something totally useless, it started from thin air.
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 07:52:29 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money. A few people there say it literally takes away money from someone else because they consider money finite, and one exceptionally nutty lady think's it's a crime the government should look into because if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.

I think it's time to find out the thoughts of people here.


 
I've heard comments like this before.  I kind of think of them as warning labels for the new (or slightly dumb).  It is technically possible that if you do a money spell, a relative might die and you might inherit the money (it is also possibly just a coincidence, or perhaps the relative was going to die anyways but not leave you any money).  I've also regularly heard examples of people using money spells to get something like a raise, and the warning is that the person who really deserves the raise gets passed over because of the spell.

The thing I have noticed with all of these are they are always things "I heard happened to this guy" or "my friend told me about this happening".  They seem to be a sort of urban legend.  Personally I have never heard of anyone who had these things happen directly to them.

That being said, I think it is good practice to be specific when doing spells.  Wanting money can mean a lot of things, and some of them might not actually involve money.  If you are constantly broke, just having enough to pay your bills and nothing left over, you might feel you want money so you can have stuff to do, but when you really sit down to think about it, what you want is more enjoyment of your non-work time, which might end up with you taking more walks in the park with your dog.  If you have a large medical bill and need it paid but don't have the money, what you really want is the bill paid, so if you work a spell for that you might end up finding out there was some kind of clerical error and you don't actually owe what you thought you did.

Ultimately, even if you decide you want to do a money spell just to bring money into your life, I don't feel there is anything morally wrong about it.  I don't think the universe is going to try to find some way to twist your wishes into something bad just to spite you.  And I really don't think it is some kind of counter-fitting!
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 08:06:41 am »
Quote from: Wind;74211
Perhaps I'm posting in the wrong spot?

In the middle of the night in the US -- most people are on board during US daytime. :)

As for doing money magic, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with it provided you are ethical about it: you aren't trying to get money you really don't need and aren't trying to get money away from others. Given the way the banking system works in the western world, money is basically created out of nothing all the time so it is not like you have to take $1000 away from someone else to get the $1000 you need for bills this month.
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 08:21:29 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money. A few people there say it literally takes away money from someone else because they consider money finite, and one exceptionally nutty lady think's it's a crime the government should look into because if you create money from thin air, it's counter fitting.

 
The thing is, money exists in an existing economic system. If you want more of it, there's flexibility, but it has to have a mechanism to come from somewhere: it's not just going to suddenly start growing on a money tree in your back yard, or shower you when you set foot outside your front door, y'know?

So, while I think money spells can work - and I've done a couple in my time - they need some twist of possibility to actually be effective. If you're waiting on someone to repay you, a money spell can help encourage that to happen when you need it. It can help you while you're job hunting or going for a raise (situations when it's much easier for more money to come your way.) Or around birthdays or other gift events. If it's money to pay particular bills, maybe a part time job or project that's within your scope, but pays the amount your need comes your way.

But if you're *not* in a situation where those are open doors of possibility, then the money has to come from somewhere, to make its way to you. And that's where it gets tricky (and thus, if the magic works, it might come at the expense of someone else you care about, or in a way that is less ethical.)

Do I think that's death, usually? No, but that's one of the possible routes. So is stuff like "Someone you care about picking the less ethical option and later getting in trouble for it, in a way that shakes up not only your finances, but your relationship with them." Or any number of other things which are not much fun.
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 10:34:10 am »
Quote from: Wind;74208


 
First of all, the idea that money is finite is economically iggerant.  The whole point of money is that there's more of it when it moves.

Which raises my second thought: I have no issues with money spells, but I still think that a lot of the time they're a bad idea.  Give me a moment here:

My teacher has been known to say things like "What good is magic if you can't get what you want with it?" and "If you don't know what you want, you can't have it."  Both are relevant.

Money isn't useful of itself.  Its sole function is in a particular form of potential.  "Having money" is mostly a cultural stand-in for "I can do what I want", which means "I want to do what I want" is both circular and vapid: as a tautology, it just doesn't have anywhere for spellwork to go.

Magic functions best in concrete terms.  "I want a cookie" is more functional than "I want two bucks to buy a cookie at the grocery store".  "Two bucks to buy a cookie at the grocery store" is putting in a level of symbolic vagueness that's dissipating, and it's also closing off options like "My co-worker made a batch of fantastic cookies and is distributing them in the breakroom" from the process of achieving a cookie.

Money is a stand-in for concrete things.  Even if it's the one thing that seems to be able to solve the problem, it's not the solved problem.  You don't want to do money magic for the money to pay the mortgage or replace your old junker car, get the money, and have some crisis surface before you can do what you intended with it: you want to have the mortgage paid or have the better car.  The money is just a step in the process, not the end-result.  So end-results are a better thing.

At the same time, building prosperity magic can be done in much the same way as building health magic or building protection magic: sewing sufficiency into the energetic streams of life.  This is a different flavor of magic than a lot of money spells, though.

(And if you just want money for the sake of having money, well, whatever, Scrooge McDuck.  ... I actually had a political rant recently about government by dragons, who don't want to do anything with their money, just, y'know, sleep on it or something.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Vessa

Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 11:36:13 am »
Quote from: Tana;74214
I usually don't do this.
But allow me to link you to my blog.
I've written there about the very thing, you're asking.

Money Matters



 Thanks for sharing this :)

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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2012, 01:27:55 pm »
Quote from: Wind;74208
Can we get a poll here?  I respect everyone's views either way. But to make sure this doesn't go by way the other forum, lets have even the people that consider money spells are immoral, try to respect others beliefs too.


I am not a practicing magic-worker (joining the "broke college student" club, yay!), but I do know that magic works on both intent and acknowledgement of consequences. If it really happened, the whole "relative died to leave inheritance after someone did a money spell" situation is a blatant neon sign that the person DIDN'T THINK THINGS THROUGH. Something as disastrous as that could only come from saying something like, "I need money from ANYWHERE!" or "I need money and I don't care where it comes from."

Magic isn't bad or good--it works on your intent. If you say you don't care where your money comes from, you'd better not fucking care where your money comes from. If you're really THAT desperate for money to let a relative die, it's unfortunate, but the universe won't blame you for it.

But most people aren't that desperate, and this is why you need to stop and think about your spell (possibly write it down) before you actually do it.

As for the general topic, I get the feeling that the "MONEY SPELLS ARE EEEEEEEBIL" mentality is invariably from people who don't need money. Every time someone says "I don't want LOTS of money, I just want to make ends meet" in that stupid tree-hugging-bohemian-ARRRRRTIST tone, I want to kick them because they clearly don't understand that "making ends meet" does not mean "paying off bills/groceries with some cash to spare for fun times."

It means "paying off bills/groceries, and anything out of the ordinary will SEVERELY jeopardize your hazy balance between "okay" and "broke"."
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 02:36:49 pm »
Quote from: Wind;74208
I'm on another site and someone asked about doing a money spell. Some guy answered that when someone he knew did it, it KILLED the person relative so she could inherit the death money.


I think too many people have read the Monkey's Paw.

Money spells are fine, as long as they are worded responsibly and the intent is right.  I've found that, like most magic, they don't work very well if you do it with a sense of desperation, though.  (Trust me, I've a lot of experience with that lately.)
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Re: Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 03:05:36 pm »
Quote from: Thorn;74238
I think too many people have read the Monkey's Paw.

Money spells are fine, as long as they are worded responsibly and the intent is right.  I've found that, like most magic, they don't work very well if you do it with a sense of desperation, though.  (Trust me, I've a lot of experience with that lately.)

 
That's the trick, really.

Are there spaces for the magic to work through? "I have a $200 bill, and I'm waiting on a $300 check" has an easy resolution for the magic to flow through. So is "I want to be in a much better financial position in six months, so I want to increase my effective income by X" (because there's lots of ways that could play out: new job, way to decrease expenses, whatever.)

"I need $1000 by next Tuesday, and I have nothing in my life that might produce that kind of money that fast." is a lot harder. As I said, it's not like the money is going to randomly show up on your porch overnight. As much as we might really want it to.

Desperation tends to push us to the latter - and if there's no cracks through which the money can appear, the magic's a lot more likely to fail.

I will say the varieties I've had the most luck with are "I have money coming, and Right Now would be Really Very Handy" (the potential is there, the timing gets a nudge), "I have put some long term improvements in place, and I need something to get me to next month/etc." (has fairly reliably produced a gift check/etc. that helped me ease through.) and then long-term prosperity work to find a job that will provide for my needs and some reasonable wants.
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Getting chastised for using a money spell
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2012, 05:43:22 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;74240
That's the trick, really.

Are there spaces for the magic to work through? "I have a $200 bill, and I'm waiting on a $300 check" has an easy resolution for the magic to flow through. So is "I want to be in a much better financial position in six months, so I want to increase my effective income by X" (because there's lots of ways that could play out: new job, way to decrease expenses, whatever.)

"I need $1000 by next Tuesday, and I have nothing in my life that might produce that kind of money that fast." is a lot harder. As I said, it's not like the money is going to randomly show up on your porch overnight. As much as we might really want it to.

Desperation tends to push us to the latter - and if there's no cracks through which the money can appear, the magic's a lot more likely to fail.

I will say the varieties I've had the most luck with are "I have money coming, and Right Now would be Really Very Handy" (the potential is there, the timing gets a nudge), "I have put some long term improvements in place, and I need something to get me to next month/etc." (has fairly reliably produced a gift check/etc. that helped me ease through.) and then long-term prosperity work to find a job that will provide for my needs and some reasonable wants.

Just hanging this here: I work in commissioned sales. That means that my money is determined by the people who buy. I have a HUGE bill coming up at the end of this month. At the end of last month, I did a money spell. Last week, it was announced that the iPhone 5 was launching, and we have the ability to do preorders this week. So the opportunity to earn the money is there.
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