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Author Topic: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?  (Read 1804 times)

RisingMoon

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 02:35:12 am »
I'm not sure it is a great argument for the non-existence of God, but it is a new one....

"Scientists now know that the universe contains at least two trillion galaxies. It’s a mind-scrunchingly big place, very different to the conception of the universe we had when the world’s major religions were founded. So do the astronomical discoveries of the last few centuries have implications for religion?"

Read the entire article

I would say size of the universe is immaterial (or, actually, lots of material) to the discussion of whether God exists. To me, it doesn't matter whether or not God exists. I can choose to believe in him or I can choose not to. Either way makes no difference because it's very unlikely any deity is objectively true.

But the reason I can also consider myself bordering on pagan is that I enjoy religion for its spiritual benefit. This gives me the ability to appreciate and enjoy any religion I want to! Cool, huh?

Naunau

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 11:17:42 am »
. I can choose to believe in him or I can choose not to. Either way makes no difference because it's very unlikely any deity is objectively true.
Am I the only one who doesn't see much of a choice in this?

ehbowen

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2017, 11:24:55 am »
Am I the only one who doesn't see much of a choice in this?
What I see is someone who won't listen to advice. If there really is a God, and that God is concerned about you and knows your personal situation, doesn't it make sense to do what he says?

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RisingMoon

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2017, 02:14:35 pm »
Am I the only one who doesn't see much of a choice in this?

How so? What choices are being limited? It's counterintuitive, but let's be frank - all religion is inherently counterintuitive. Our minds do not immediately grasp things like logic and reason; these things must be trained into it.

What I see is someone who won't listen to advice. If there really is a God, and that God is concerned about you and knows your personal situation, doesn't it make sense to do what he says?

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

What advise am I failing to listen to, exactly? I see someone who jumps to conclusions, myself.

Is there really a god in the objective sense, i.e. one who actually created the universe and runs the world and will eventually give us eternal salvation or something? That's unlikely, and in fact, since there's no scientific evidence (beyond pseudoscientific explanations) to actually support the concept of God or any deities, instead we admit that our God or Goddess or angels or Dagdas, etc., are true to us and those who believe with us. In this sense we're not under any obligation to worry about whether or not these deities exist in the objective world and we're free to focus on the spiritual messages contained within.

After all, if your God is objectively true, then He's true for me, but since I've never experienced this, this isn't true. Nor are the Hindu Gods objectively true for Christians. If one of them was objectively true, wouldn't He or She or Ze assert their dominance a little better?  ::)

Because of this intellectual freedom, I can seek out any religious concept I want and freely explore it, knowing that it's only true to me and other believers, so no worries about whether or not I need to prove anything to anyone.

SunflowerP

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 08:51:46 pm »
What I see is someone who won't listen to advice. If there really is a God, and that God is concerned about you and knows your personal situation, doesn't it make sense to do what he says?

A Reminder:
Hi, Eric,

While that's too mild to describe as a personal attack (hence a reminder, rather than a warning), it's an unwarranted and unduly pejorative personal remark, an ad hominem that fails to 'attack ideas and opinions, not the people who hold them' as the rules put it.

Similarly, while this specific post isn't in itself over the 'don't proselytize' line, you've developed a habit of making little proselytically-flavored nudges at what seems like every opportunity. There are two (or three if one counts your initial contribution to the thread) instances in this thread alone. Keep in mind that one of the changes made to the rules since your previous time of heavy activity on TC is to specify that we pay attention to, and moderate accordingly, patterns of behavior, not just single instances in isolation, and please remember that acting on your proselytic impulses is considered rude in this environment - even what might seem to you to be gentle nudges can add up to what we consider rude behavior.

(Alternately, your apparent ad hominem is in fact engaging RisingMoon's opinions and ideas, rather than his character, by objecting to his failure to choose to believe in your God. That really would be over the proselytization line, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by reading this as stated above.)

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Morbid

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 02:22:11 am »
I'm not sure it is a great argument for the non-existence of God, but it is a new one....

"Scientists now know that the universe contains at least two trillion galaxies. It’s a mind-scrunchingly big place, very different to the conception of the universe we had when the world’s major religions were founded. So do the astronomical discoveries of the last few centuries have implications for religion?"

Read the entire article

My only thing is that regardless of if the Christian God exists or does not exist (that is beyond the scope of this post), would this being not be infinitely more complicated than what the human mind can comprehend?  The human mind isn't really designed to understand concepts that are supposedly infinite.  Take for example any of the Gods or Goddesses that we work with.  They are defined with human limits (mythology), but any of us who have worked with said Gods/Goddesses should know that they are more complicated than those human limits.  I don't see why the Christian God would be any different, so why would something that is defined by human limits cease to exist outside of those limits?
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Naunau

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Re: Does the size of the universe prove [the Christian] God doesn’t exist?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 11:48:36 am »
What I see is someone who won't listen to advice. If there really is a God, and that God is concerned about you and knows your personal situation, doesn't it make sense to do what he says?
Taking this to the logical conclusion, one would have to do this with every single god, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to obey blindly contradictory indications.

How so? What choices are being limited? It's counterintuitive, but let's be frank - all religion is inherently counterintuitive. Our minds do not immediately grasp things like logic and reason; these things must be trained into it.
I mean not everybody can believe those things sincerely just because they want. There hare usually circunstances enabling it, like a coherent belief system around, certain kind of experiences, certain attitudes to phenomena and feelings, exposition to religious thought as children (this seems to be very common), so I dunno... in the end, don't our circunstances just push us into different directions?

Tbh, I'd be overjoyed if I came into contact with something entirely new to me. It just hasn't happened, or it has happened like to everybody else and I thought something else entirely of it. After a long time like that, such circunstances would make it really difficult for someone to accept or recognize something supernatural being there even if such a thing was actually there. And I imagine it can be the same the other way around.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:55:32 am by Naunau »

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