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Author Topic: Does Love Exist?  (Read 9546 times)

DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #90 on: April 13, 2016, 03:17:18 am »
Quote from: ainellewellyn;190034
Again, you're not the only person with mental illness - I have mental illness, other people on the forum do, so on. So if I have a glib attitude...okay. Sorry I see the world differently than you and choose to view it so.

Sure, it sucks to have a mental illness, but I also don't like painting people I meet in community centers or hospitals as backdrops for my own cynicism, since I find more value in viewing them as people, not props to be put up in arguments. But, hey, if you want to keep assuming you have exclusive knowledge of what you're trotting out...

 
I don't see them as props! Because I am unusually articulate among the autistic, I have taken on the role of peer advocate and have a long history of having taken up for my peers. Both my peers and the professionals at my treatment center look to me as a go-between because, believe or it not, I am seen as compassionate and able to express the concerns of those who cannot speak for themselves. It's not just the autistic who have come to rely on me for help but also the schizophrenic and the bipolar. I am one of their peer advocates and counselors. I write letters for them, make phone calls for them, and I listen to them, and I speak for them when they are afraid to do so. I also do this for the elderly. I have two elderly ladies in particular, Mary and Alice, who rely on me to see that they are not abused. I rescued them from abusive environments.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
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Eastling

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2016, 09:14:23 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;185989
I figured this is an interesting discussion in general, but additionally what do you personally think, and what does your path/specific religion teach? Some people believe in romantic love, and some only attraction. What do you believe?

 
In my belief system, Love is the opposite of Independence--while the latter is a celebration of your own power, Love is an acknowledgment and celebration of the existence/power of Others. It requires a certain degree of sacrifice--if you love someone, be it yourself or another person, you have to admit that you can't go around indulging all your immediate impulses all the time. You have to actually think and do what will ultimately benefit that person in the end.

The two forces of isolation/wholeness/pride/independence and interconnectedness/love must be balanced.
"The peacock can show its whole tail at once, but I can only tell you a story."
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Nymree

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #92 on: September 13, 2016, 03:31:58 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;185989
What do you believe?

I know this is fairly old now, but I only just finished getting around to reading all replies and wanted to bring something up that (I don't think) was addressed (though apologies if I missed it somewhere!)

One point that I was thinking about when originally posting, was the idea of love (and other emotions) being reduced to chemical formula. This is something I heard about only recently when making the thread, but it is that love can be known in terms of chemicals. Opinions?

I at first felt this sort of took the essence of love itself away, by turning it into something you can physically measure, but now I really am not sure. I mean, this could do some good, right? Scientific advancement benefits all, and it's good to learn and grow as a human race. Still, the idea unsettled me, and I wanted to ask others' opinions on it.

Also, thank you to everyone for your contributions to this discussion!

Blessed Be!

Nymree
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 03:32:56 pm by Nymree »

Darkhawk

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #93 on: September 13, 2016, 03:55:46 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;196221
One point that I was thinking about when originally posting, was the idea of love (and other emotions) being reduced to chemical formula. This is something I heard about only recently when making the thread, but it is that love can be known in terms of chemicals. Opinions?

 
I would say yes, things that happen inside the brain are related to neurotransmitters.  If the neurotransmitters are not there, the things are not happening.  That's how brains work.

I'm not sure why this would be called being "reduced" to anything.  Reality just kind of ... exists, regardless of people's opinions about it.  (Which are also related to neurotransmitters.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Ryu

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #94 on: September 13, 2016, 08:22:18 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;185989
I figured this is an interesting discussion in general, but additionally what do you personally think, and what does your path/specific religion teach? Some people believe in romantic love, and some only attraction. What do you believe?

 
Well, aside from the fact that all emotions are biochemical reactions I am not really sure how I would answer such a question. It is doubly hard to describe something that has no reality outside of the mind meaning it has no form that is distinguished from anything tangible. All we have are anecdotes based on experience.

It seems that while we have oodles of words to describe certain things it also seems that we have little in the way of describing ones fondness for another.
Furthermore when people think of "love" it is often assumed it is in reference to a spouse or significant other.
But what words do we have to describe that feeling for a child? How about a good friend? A pet?

We use the word "love" so frivolously  that it loses meaning; often I hear "Oh I just 'love' that movie" or perhaps "I love eating at this place " or even "I absolutely LOVE creamed spinach" (said by no one EVER)  so the meaning of the term gets somewhat lost in the sea of semantics.

However if we did not have feeling of closeness or even the barest of compassion for others then we would not even exist.
Anyways...it is hard to prove what love is but I do think that the various feelings of "love" is expressed not just in caring for children or feeding the homeless people and pets but perhaps in even more subtle things like learning about a culture or finding more information about an illness that perhaps a family member has.

I don't know, maybe I am just fine knowing what neurotransmitters are and how they work yet also knowing it also provides those "feelings" we need to provide even the tiniest impetus for us to keep going, every day.

Ok..I'm done rambling. :)

Noctua

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2016, 02:50:44 pm »
Quote from: Ryu;196228
Well, aside from the fact that all emotions are biochemical reactions I am not really sure how I would answer such a question. It is doubly hard to describe something that has no reality outside of the mind meaning it has no form that is distinguished from anything tangible. All we have are anecdotes based on experience.

It seems that while we have oodles of words to describe certain things it also seems that we have little in the way of describing ones fondness for another.
Furthermore when people think of "love" it is often assumed it is in reference to a spouse or significant other.
But what words do we have to describe that feeling for a child? How about a good friend? A pet?

We use the word "love" so frivolously  that it loses meaning; often I hear "Oh I just 'love' that movie" or perhaps "I love eating at this place " or even "I absolutely LOVE creamed spinach" (said by no one EVER)  so the meaning of the term gets somewhat lost in the sea of semantics.

However if we did not have feeling of closeness or even the barest of compassion for others then we would not even exist.
Anyways...it is hard to prove what love is but I do think that the various feelings of "love" is expressed not just in caring for children or feeding the homeless people and pets but perhaps in even more subtle things like learning about a culture or finding more information about an illness that perhaps a family member has.

I don't know, maybe I am just fine knowing what neurotransmitters are and how they work yet also knowing it also provides those "feelings" we need to provide even the tiniest impetus for us to keep going, every day.

Ok..I'm done rambling. :)

 
Well, I for one actually do love creamed spinach so there. :p

I think it's pretty safe to say that most everyone here believes that there is something more than just the physical world we see, things that both encompass and yet surpass our existence. Love to me is the same way- sure there may be a squirting of dopamine and oxytocin that happens when you feel it, but love itself is both comprised of and surpasses the neurotransmitters dancing around in your neurons.

I would agree that "love" is over-used to the point that it almost loses meaning. I don't love creamed spinach the way I love my husband or kids. But said husband and kids don't complain when I put creamed spinach on the table, which surely proves the existence of their love for me.

cboutin23

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2017, 05:35:28 am »
Yes it is more than just emotion,  it's all encompassing

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2017, 06:50:00 am »

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Sorcha

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2017, 10:48:58 am »
I figured this is an interesting discussion in general, but additionally what do you personally think, and what does your path/specific religion teach? Some people believe in romantic love, and some only attraction. What do you believe?

I think we stick a lot of different things under the category of love. English is imprecise on that topic.

I see love as a few different things:

-An action. I can "commit love" by doing something kind for somebody else. (I also tend to think of this as an expression of actual love. If you claim to love somebody but no action goes into that, I'd say your claim is probably a bit empty unless circumstances prevent it; say, you love somebody but because they're in a committed relationship with somebody else performing affectionate gestures might not go over well.)
-Familial/platonic affection. I can care about somebody in a totally non-romantic way. This has all kinds of nuances in and of itself. I'm going to feel differently about my mom than I do about my brother or my best friend from elementary school.
-Romantic love. Probably more properly termed infatuation. Can be accompanied by other forms of love.
-Sexual love. I kind of consider this as more than just sexual attraction. Like you can be sexually attracted to somebody you don't give a crap about, but you can also want to express and receive love and connection sexually, which is, to me, a different thing. (I'm not saying casual sex is bad; I just wouldn't call it love.)
-Love of concepts, causes, stuff, and pizza. I love pizza. I love social justice. I love magic. I love religion. I love printed leggings... I obviously love all these things in different ways and to different degrees.

I could go on. I think love exists. I think it exists in a myriad of different ways and the fact that we ask one word to stretch so far is one of the reasons we have trouble with the concept.


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Owl

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Re: Does Love Exist?
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2017, 03:27:50 pm »

 
I would say yes, things that happen inside the brain are related to neurotransmitters.  If the neurotransmitters are not there, the things are not happening.  That's how brains work.

I'm not sure why this would be called being "reduced" to anything.  Reality just kind of ... exists, regardless of people's opinions about it.  (Which are also related to neurotransmitters.)

Absolutely.  It doesn't mean thoughts and emotions aren't real, it just means that is how the brain 'does' them. 

In some cases we are pushed to have certain emotions - with infants and small children, for example, because otherwise and child waking you in the night night after night would end up strangled.  But, that doesn't mean you don't love your children.  It just means the tolerance and protectiveness are beefed up when it is necessary for the survival of the species.

Love of a so/partner/spouse is not the same.  And even that can come in different 'levels'.  I would have said I loved my first husband for most of our marriage, but the feelings I had for him are just a fraction of what I feel for my current spouse.  And we've been together 10 years, so I don't think it is just the newness.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

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