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Author Topic: Does Causality Exist?  (Read 2903 times)

EclecticWheel

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 07:18:30 pm »
:whis:
Quote from: Sefiru;150593
Well, just because there isn't an absolute reference point for the spatial dimensions, we don't say that motion is an illusion. So why would lacking an absolute temporal reference point make the flow of time an illusion?

 
An illusion is something that is different from what it seems to be.  That doesn't mean it isn't real at all.

I would say that motion is an illusion.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

RandallS

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 07:49:51 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150560
That's kind of what I'm getting at.  Once we step outside of it there is nothing against which to measure the perceived flow.

There's also no evidence of anything outside reality to step into or measure things against.
Randall
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RandallS

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 07:50:48 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150594
I would say that motion is an illusion.

Why would you say that?
Randall
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Sefiru

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2014, 04:58:06 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;150594

 An illusion is something that is different from what it seems to be.  That doesn't mean it isn't real at all.


Hang on, I think I need you to define your terms here.

According to standard usage, the word "illusion" refers to a perception which is wrong, that is, which is different from some objective reality.

Whereas we seem to agree that when it comes to space-time, no viewpoint is privileged over any other, and thus there is no objective reality. That is, there are many cases of "what something seems to be" but no one of them can be singled out as "what something is".

So you appear to be using the word "illusion" in a different way than I'm used to. Can you describe what you mean by it, please?

EclecticWheel

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2014, 07:48:17 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;150639
There's also no evidence of anything outside reality to step into or measure things against.

 
Exactly.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

EclecticWheel

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2014, 07:55:48 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;150677
Hang on, I think I need you to define your terms here.

According to standard usage, the word "illusion" refers to a perception which is wrong, that is, which is different from some objective reality.



 
An illusion is something that is different from what it appears to be as I am defining it.  That doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

EclecticWheel

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Re: Does Causality Exist?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2014, 08:06:43 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;150640
Why would you say that?

 
Because I am not convinced that time flows except relative to our location within it, that the flow is an illusion, and that affects how I would understand notions of change, motion, self, continuity, and free will.  Motion requires speed, and speed affects how we experience time.

On a side note, I rejected libertarian free will before reflecting or reading about space-time based on other types of reasoning, so the notions of space-time I have now only confirmed that in a different way.  I prefer to speak of volitional behavior rather than free will.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

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