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Author Topic: Christianity and Witchcraft  (Read 6059 times)

GaiaDianne

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2012, 03:16:52 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;38793
Just a note for clarification:  Though GaiaDianne quotes Starhawk's words as a vivid description of experientiality in religious witchcraft, Starhawk isn't Wiccan and isn't speaking of Wicca per se, but of a different sort of religious witchcraft (Feri and/or its offshoot Reclaiming).  There's been a lot of confusion about this over the last several decades, so I thought I'd mention it explicitly to avoid further confusion.

Sunflower

 

GAIA:

Hi and Merry Meet, Sunflower -- Thanks so much for making that clarification - I planned to do so myself and then got so into the post that i forgot :o

And thanks for providing the info on Sam Wagar, as well!

B*B - GaiaDianne
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 03:20:47 pm by GaiaDianne »

WillowWolf

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 03:03:51 am »
Quote from: SonofPan
Christians everyday pray to their god, now this sort of prayer is very closely related to the type of chanting I do. Focusing my mind and energy on a particular subject and invoke my god's name and power. Does anyone else see this similarity in their own experiences? I only ask because I think it is funny when I tell people I am a witch and I worship Pan they think I am crazy because they themselves are Christians.

Ideas? thoughts?
I noticed this too. I have only met Christians that pray as if talking to a friend or talking to a revered entity (which the Christian God is), as well as singing praise and worship and whotnot. I'm sure this isn't the only way they pray, just my own experience. It's an interesting tie to what you do, for sure- though I think that it's a little different in it's execution, but I do see the similarities : D

Quote from: nix
... anything not christian are more likely to jump to conclusion.
Not just Christians jump to conclusions. Pagans, Hindu, and others jump to conclusions as well. Not trying to attack or anything, just commenting on that statement is all.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 03:06:22 am by WillowWolf »

Faemon

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 11:47:46 am »
Quote from: WillowWolf;61179
Quote from: nix;17891
I just think that those with more closed minds towards anything not christian are more likely to jump to conclusion.
Not just Christians jump to conclusions. Pagans, Hindu, and others jump to conclusions as well. Not trying to attack or anything, just commenting on that statement is all.
True, but I think that we would be remiss not to point out the imbalance of social power that comes with Christianity being mainstream-- at least where SoP and Nix lives, by the sounds of it. When people of a certain faith form the religious majority, then that faith becomes "normal" -- at the expense of religious minorities. This is because normalcy (doesn't have to be religious, it can be an economic status thing, a race thing, gender thing, physically able-bodied and attractive thing,) builds a bubble of stupid around people. All people have their moments of stupidity, as you pointed out, but in the scope of systemic social prejudice? Normal people are generally more ignorant, because the world is made for them. They're in their comfort zone, and will not usually need to step outside of it to learn and grow. Maybe to condemn or dismiss others who carry on with very similar practices as crazy, in defense of the normalcy bubble.

It's a pretty solid social theory, at least I think so which is why I'm spouting it. "Kyriarchy" -- we live in one. Now as for spiritual mechanics...

Quote from: SonofPan;17826
Christians everyday pray to their god, now this sort of prayer is very closely related to the type of chanting I do. Focusing my mind and energy on a particular subject and invoke my god's name and power. Does anyone else see this similarity in their own experiences? I only ask because I think it is funny when I tell people I am a witch and I worship Pan they think I am crazy because they themselves are Christians.
I can't help but think of this in terms of power versus spirituality, which I think is a very common human conflict. I hear a few old Pagans bemoan the new generation that's more into developing cool psychic abilities than they are in for simply honoring nature... and, my sister's pastor recently gave a sermon about how people in their fellowship are very likely looking for the wrong thing when seeking miracles and answers to their prayers. Christianity actually does have a very rich tradition of spellcraft all its own.

Personally, I'm just not at the stage in my life right now where I can shelve my tarot cards and deal with things as they come every day with maturity and security, instead of calling the gods with every shuffle and ask them to warn me about the future and hope really hard that they'll do something about it so that I don't have to. I'm getting... somewhere... I feel like I'm developing principles, and being guided towards these epiphanies-- though, I must confess, as grateful as I am for how this path has led me to discover/create my truer self and have a clearer look at my place in the world... growing up like that was never my aim.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 11:50:24 am by Faemon »
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
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Tana

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 03:10:57 pm »
Quote from: triple_entendre;62918
Christianity actually does have a very rich tradition of spellcraft all its own.

 
You did not just link to a Harry Potter fan page as source?
While this site seems to refer to the classical grimoires often used in Western CM, I don't think this is a good source.

I'd rather relate to folk magical practice as Christian than to the stuff the educated magus did, honestly.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Faemon

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2012, 11:40:45 pm »
Quote from: Tana;62956
You did not just link to a Harry Potter fan page as source?
While this site seems to refer to the classical grimoires often used in Western CM, I don't think this is a good source.
I honestly haven't found a source that more thoroughly and comprehensively shows the content of classical grimoires. If you have any better sources, of course I'd like to add them to my bookmarks. Most people get so stuck on the fandom aspect that all that beautiful research gets dismissed outright.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 11:41:58 pm by Faemon »
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
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GaiaDianne

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2012, 03:12:11 pm »
Quote from: SonofPan;17826


Christians everyday pray to their god, now this sort of prayer is very closely related to the type of chanting I do. Focusing my mind and energy on a particular subject and invoke my god's name and power. Does anyone else see this similarity in their own experiences? I only ask because I think it is funny when I tell people I am a witch and I worship Pan they think I am crazy because they themselves are Christians.

Ideas? thoughts?



GAIADIANNE:

Hi and Merry Meet, SonofPan --

Well, there's a difference between "Prayer" and spellcraft --
A prayer is supplicative -- One *asks* / supplicates a Deity to do something generally considered to be beyond the human's ability;
~ whereas in spellcraft, one assumes responsibility for and power to do it -- with or without the help of Deity.  

Christian and even Jewish magick are very old traditions, and the Bible is full of magick performed by patriarchs, prophets, heroes and religious leaders -- For more on this, please see my article on "Christian and Biblical Magick", here:
 http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/showthread.php?2338-Magick-in-the-Bible-amp-Early-Christianity

Meanwhile, here are two quotes you might find interesting;

   
Quote

"The belief, accusation or tradition that Jesus was a magician and that he passed magical power to his apostles and to the church as a whole, is thus found in Judaism, Gnosticism, Christian orthodoxy and heterodoxy, Paganism, Islam and Mandeanism."
(John Hull, _Hellenistic Magic and the Synoptic Tradition_ 4)


Quote

   "Christian magic is a tradition that employs deified Christian figures (Mary, the apostles, saints, and important figures) to allow a personal relationship with the Divine in the Roman Catholic Church and older Christian traditions. Additionally, it incorporates a number of other religions’ themes, gods, and traditions into its own system. It may also utilize spells, incantations, amulets, rituals, and other occult practices to call upon divine forces for intervention in the affairs of the world.  Christian magic has arguably been around as long as Christianity itself, and continues to be a part of some belief systems in the modern world."  
http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint/Touchstone/MagicChr-Mims.htm


 
Of course, Christians are not generally going to like this view, and you shouldn't expect them to see much similarity between what you do, and what they do -- After all, theirs is the "right, true and only" Way  ;)

Blessed Be ~ GaiaDianne

JovesChild

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2012, 03:40:34 pm »
Quote from: GaiaDianne;75502
GAIADIANNE:

Of course, Christians are not generally going to like this view, and you shouldn't expect them to see much similarity between what you do, and what they do -- After all, theirs is the "right, true and only" Way  ;)

 
I'd be careful making these kinds of assumptions of all Christians. Coming from several denominations and non-denominations myself, there are people of certain Christian walks that actually DO consider the mystic quality in their own beliefs (prophecy, signs & wonders/omens, ritualistic cleansing, spirit beings and worlds aside from just their Triune God). Albeit, there are few that will openly acknowledge validity in any pagan perspective when confronted, especially without an actual, ongoing relationship with you and knowing exactly where you coming from.
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Keller

Victoria

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Re: Christianity and Witchcraft
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 03:30:55 pm »
Quote from: SonofPan;17826
So I have been thinking, Christians everyday go to their god in prayer. Now I was raised in a non-denominational christian church so I have only my own experience to go from...that being said:

Christians everyday pray to their god, now this sort of prayer is very closely related to the type of chanting I do. Focusing my mind and energy on a particular subject and invoke my god's name and power. Does anyone else see this similarity in their own experiences? I only ask because I think it is funny when I tell people I am a witch and I worship Pan they think I am crazy because they themselves are Christians.

Ideas? thoughts?

 
I have always seen prayer as a sort of magic. I do believe prayers are answered for people of all faiths. And in my opinion, chanting is kin to prayer.

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