collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Alternate Universe Questions  (Read 2671 times)

Pteranotropi

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 145
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Alternate Universe Questions
« on: January 25, 2016, 10:57:42 am »
The more I study indo-european religions, the more I wonder just how Europe would have been without Christianity.

For instance, do you think the *Dyeus derived gods (Zeus, Jupiter, Reo, Dievs, et cetera) would have remained dominant, or would it be like with Odin and Týr, when another random god supplanted the local sky god?

Would Iberia reclaim its own sky god, Reo, after the fall of the Roman Empire? Or would it adopt Jupiter still?

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 03:01:05 pm »
Quote from: Pteranotropi;185753
The more I study indo-european religions, the more I wonder just how Europe would have been without Christianity.

For instance, do you think the *Dyeus derived gods (Zeus, Jupiter, Reo, Dievs, et cetera) would have remained dominant, or would it be like with Odin and Týr, when another random god supplanted the local sky god?

Would Iberia reclaim its own sky god, Reo, after the fall of the Roman Empire? Or would it adopt Jupiter still?


I am bad at contrafactual speculation, but I want to bring your attention to, that the name of Zeus is related to *Dyeus, but his function is more related to Indra and equivalents to him: Thor, Taranis, Tarhunt, Perun and Perkunas.

M.L. West argues that the Chronide initially was known as Zeus Keraunos, in distinction to his grandfather Zeus Uranos.

Nor are Indo-European languages the only ones in Europe. Finnish, Sami, Meänkieli, Estonian and Hungarian are descendants of Proto-Uralic, Turkish is (not surprisingly) a Turkic language, and Basque is an isolate.

Wimsaur

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 109
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 09:14:08 am »
Quote from: Pteranotropi;185753
The more I study indo-european religions, the more I wonder just how Europe would have been without Christianity.

For instance, do you think the *Dyeus derived gods (Zeus, Jupiter, Reo, Dievs, et cetera) would have remained dominant, or would it be like with Odin and Týr, when another random god supplanted the local sky god?

Would Iberia reclaim its own sky god, Reo, after the fall of the Roman Empire? Or would it adopt Jupiter still?

I suspect the world would have been very different had it not been taken over by the filthy Christian church.

Before Christianity was formalized to enslave the masses and persecute free thinkers from superior faiths, Rome had many innovations that became lost until modern times.

I suspect that science would have flourished and religions would have evolved instead of stunted the human mind. Gods that enlighten may have prevailed that assisted humanity in realizing our potential.

A knowledge of astrology would suggest that the stars would have had to be different for anything else to occur.

The curse of Christianity, the bane of humanity, is just as much the product of the aeon of Pisces than any one human influence. Pisces is all about large organizations. In contrast, Aquarius (our current aeon) is about personal growth, creativity, and evolution.

If the stars be the same in a parallel universe than a religion based on large institutions may be inevitable. If not, then the gods would manifest with the stars of that universe.

-Wimsaur.

Yei

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 547
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 135
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Mexica Reconstructionism
  • Preferred Pronouns: He/Him/His
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 04:00:46 pm »
Quote from: Wimsaur;185772
I suspect the world would have been very different had it not been taken over by the filthy Christian church.

Before Christianity was formalized to enslave the masses and persecute free thinkers from superior faiths, Rome had many innovations that became lost until modern times.

I suspect that science would have flourished and religions would have evolved instead of stunted the human mind. Gods that enlighten may have prevailed that assisted humanity in realizing our potential.

A knowledge of astrology would suggest that the stars would have had to be different for anything else to occur.

The curse of Christianity, the bane of humanity, is just as much the product of the aeon of Pisces than any one human influence. Pisces is all about large organizations. In contrast, Aquarius (our current aeon) is about personal growth, creativity, and evolution.

If the stars be the same in a parallel universe than a religion based on large institutions may be inevitable. If not, then the gods would manifest with the stars of that universe.

-Wimsaur.

 
Whoa! Slow down there Cowboy!

While the Christian Church has caused a lot of problems, the real situation is more complicated than you are stating. For a start, both Roman and Greek civilisations made heavy use of slaves and slavery. Christianity at first opposed slavery, though it later became a justification for slavery in the Americas.

While it is true that the Middle Ages represented a great loss of knowledge from the Roman era, this had as much to do with the collapse of the Roman Economic system as with Christianity. It is also worth pointing out that, despite the Churches hierarchy and authoritarianism, Christianity also produced some of the most radical social movements in history. Though these only vaguely resembled past and contemporary Christian faiths.

I think that the area where Christianity has been perhaps more specifically problematic, has actually been with the environment, as traditionally Christianity does not value the natural world so much. Christianity also tends to view plants and animals as objects rather than living beings. In the modern era, Conservative Christianity has been implicated in Climate Change Denial. But of course, this is a complex and multi-faceted issue.

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10172
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 254
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 08:16:16 pm »
Quote from: Wimsaur;185772
I suspect the world would have been very different had it not been taken over by the filthy Christian church.

*** MOD HAT ON ***
Generalized attacks on a religion are against forum rules. This post contains sever such attacks on Christianity. The Cauldron is NOT the place for bashing Christianity or any other religion.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Gnowan

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 99
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 03:22:06 am »
Quote from: RandallS;185802
*** MOD HAT ON ***
Generalized attacks on a religion are against forum rules. This post contains sever such attacks on Christianity. The Cauldron is NOT the place for bashing Christianity or any other religion.

 
I 'm still new here and I don't know how or where to post this and whether I can do it publicly or privately.

I so appreciate y'all not supporting Christian-bashing.  Expressing ideas, yes, and differing opinions, yes.

Some adjectives just shouldn't be used.

(I tried looking through the rules and couldn't find anything that seemed to fit.)

I am new here and I've checked out a lot of boards.  I believe in free speech.  I'm also a believer in reeling in some of those adjectives, so you can make a point, without it being blatantly offensive.

I'm also a believer that you don't have to reel in every word so that a point can be made without excessive offendedness.

I tell ya what--there's a fine line.......

~Gnowan

Pteranotropi

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 145
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 10:17:21 am »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;185759
I am bad at contrafactual speculation, but I want to bring your attention to, that the name of Zeus is related to *Dyeus, but his function is more related to Indra and equivalents to him: Thor, Taranis, Tarhunt, Perun and Perkunas.

M.L. West argues that the Chronide initially was known as Zeus Keraunos, in distinction to his grandfather Zeus Uranos.

Nor are Indo-European languages the only ones in Europe. Finnish, Sami, Meänkieli, Estonian and Hungarian are descendants of Proto-Uralic, Turkish is (not surprisingly) a Turkic language, and Basque is an isolate.

 
Interesting. Though I wouldn't say the role changed (the Perkwnos-derived gods aside from Indra are rarely god kings), just acquired traits of that deity like lightning, promiscuity and oak trees.

LunaStar

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 100
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Alternate Universe Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 04:27:43 pm »
Quote from: Pteranotropi;185753
The more I study indo-european religions, the more I wonder just how Europe would have been without Christianity.

For instance, do you think the *Dyeus derived gods (Zeus, Jupiter, Reo, Dievs, et cetera) would have remained dominant, or would it be like with Odin and Týr, when another random god supplanted the local sky god?

Would Iberia reclaim its own sky god, Reo, after the fall of the Roman Empire? Or would it adopt Jupiter still?

 
This is really interesting.  I feel like the story could have taken any direction.  From a writer's perspective, it would be fun to create various scenarios and then write their lore.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
24 Replies
4647 Views
Last post July 20, 2011, 09:44:27 am
by TisiphoneSeraph
52 Replies
8752 Views
Last post October 21, 2011, 11:12:40 pm
by Devo
19 Replies
2465 Views
Last post March 20, 2012, 03:08:37 am
by earth_dragon
11 Replies
1287 Views
Last post January 12, 2013, 12:07:26 pm
by Fausta
12 Replies
1335 Views
Last post February 28, 2019, 09:37:47 pm
by EmberHearth

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 17
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall