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Author Topic: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?  (Read 8738 times)

Sharysa

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2012, 05:25:46 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;54648
We actually have a pretty good grasp on why lightning happens.  The various forces that create a storm are complex enough that their exact location and intensity are sometimes hard to predict, but we do understand what combination of forces creates them, and how they do so.  I learned about this stuff in earth sciences class in junior high, and I don't remember gods being mentioned.


I'm not disputing that we know why lightning happens, and I most likely mixed up the "why's" and "how's" by mistake in my post. Apologies for that.

However, that doesn't change my thought that while modern humans know why lightning/thunder happens WHEN it happens, it's still largely out of our knowledge to control or predict and the best we can do is deal with it.

Quote
When people talk about the "why" of spirituality, they tend to be talking about human interaction with the world.  How we filter and interpret the thunderstorm rather than the storm itself.


And sometimes it's the lack of interaction that keeps a kernel of spirituality growing in modern times; we know why/how thunderstorms happen, but that doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be out during them (or at the very least, not on high places or around lots of metal).
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Egarwaen

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2012, 06:47:31 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54444
I just simply want to know why you picked what you believe,


I didn't. "Picked" implies, to me, a level of willful, conscious selection that I did not experience.

Quote from: GKDAIR;54444
5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was.

 
I don't know that, nor do I assume it. My understanding of my own experiences leads me to reason that the gods and goddesses I worship made themselves known to our ancestors, who interpreted what they were shown imperfectly, just as I do. You are perfectly free to assume whatever you want, and I wish you luck at finding some satisfying explanation.

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2012, 06:56:29 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
Hello everyone.

I've been looking into pagan beliefs for a while now, I am agnostic and just trying to find myself, I do believe in a higher form of power, but I do not accept the more bigger religions like Christianity.

I just have some questions for you all.

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


Thanks for all the help guys!

 
1. I believe in Jesus. I however, also believe there are other higher powers here.
"Though shalt have no other god's before me"
- to me that is admitting, yeah, there are other gods.

But I am sure of my beliefs because of the feeling I get inside. It lifts me up spiritually. Which is something I never experienced while practicing traditional Christianity.

2.  No. I was, at first. Then I started to really experience the pagan community. If hell existed, I can't imagine all of us being sent there just because we believed differently. There are some truly amazing, good spirited people in the Pagan community. Also, I have decided to live in the now. Why spend life worrying about being perfect for the tomorrow?

3. I didn't "Pick" my belief. It chose me. No matter how I fought it and tried to be a "good christian girl" it kept coming back into my life. I got to the point where I could no longer ignore what my soul was telling me.
If we all lived a little greener, Then perhaps our children\'s children will live a little longer.
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Aubrey_Rose

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2012, 07:03:57 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54414
I'd appreciate it if someone answered the questions who wasn't already up past their bedtime.

I have one more that I would like to ask, but could not find an Edit Button.

4). Do pagans believe in all the gods? Like could I for instance, have a shrine to Zeus and Thor? Or am I only limited to a specific belief like Greek or Norse?

 
Fist off, that comment was rude.

now to answer your question

4. I can't speak for all pagans. No one can.
Many are polytheistic. But others are monotheistic.

Personally, I believe there are many gods and goddesses. Do I worship them all? No. Do I know who they all are? No.

I worship two, mainly.
And a third has managed to weasel her way into my life just recently. ;)

As they call to me, I turn to them.
Not all call to me personally though.

My altar has a candle to represent Gaia, and another to represent the sun God.
They live there in harmony and I like it that way.
If we all lived a little greener, Then perhaps our children\'s children will live a little longer.
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Morag

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2012, 01:49:06 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54444
Please note I wasn't trying to offend anybody with my questions, I just simply want to know why you picked what you believe, because I am a man of science, and I think critically and rational about beliefs in gods and god. If you can rationally explain your belief to me (basically just say anything but "I believe because my parents do) then I am fine with that. That means that when I think about these gods and stuff, I know others have battled the same fights I battle in my head.

Also, glad to know I am not the only one who tends to believe in the greek gods. I don't know why but I always seem drawn to them. I really hope its not just a childhood fantasy of mine clouding my mind.


Anyway, ONE FINAL QUESTION: I totally forgot to add this.

5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?

Again, not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some answers, as I struggle with these questions in my head.

 
For someone not trying to offend anyone you're doing a damn good job. I'm not sure about anyone else but I don't take too kindly when the original poster insults a friend of mine when she answers your questions. Which, by the way, are questions pagans get all the time with varying degrees of rudeness. As Stephy has already said.

I don't believe in my gods. I don't have to. To quote someone I admire very much:

Quote from: Darkhawk;54508
I don't go out and check that there's mail in the mailbox and affirm that I believe in the postman.


You're a man of science? That's nice. I'm a genderqueer individual of science. And I'm a polytheist. Amazingly, these things don't invalidate each other.

I might have a scientific understanding of how the earth was formed, or what makes soil rich and full of life -- this does not negate the fact that Morrigan is still in that soil. I may understand what makes fire, or why the sun shines -- this does not negate Brighid's existence within either. I may get, scientifically, why fog and mist form, why rain falls, or why the tides come in and out -- Manannan is still there. It's still His domain.

The ancients did not create the gods. They simply put faces and names to primal forces that we cannot possibly begin to fully understand.


So no, I don't believe. They're just there. Like the ocean is just there, and the sun, and the earth. They are a part of my life.

What I do believe in? Many things. Reincarnation, for one. Why?

Because my mom did, and that's damn rational enough for me.
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MadZealot

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2012, 03:19:01 am »
Quote from: cigfran;54514
5) This is a vast oversimplification, common to modern agnostics, that has very little to do with actual anthropology or history of religion. And "what makes lightning" has nothing at all to do with the deeply poetic - and sophisticated - human tendency to deal with the natural world in metaphors.

Oooo.  Very nice.  

I have nothing to add to this thread; others have answered as I would but with more eloquence.  
Great thread, free exchange of ideas.  
I've gotta say I look forward to logging into TC after a long day at work.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 03:22:30 am by MadZealot »
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2012, 11:30:37 pm »
Quote
5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?

Early mythology/religion is just the grandfather of modern science. The results of Thor as the storm aren't any different today than what they were then- science just gives  names to what already exists, it didn't erase anything or create anything new. So. Lightning still adds much needed nitrates into the soil and Thor still grants fertility. What's the issue? It's not like I'm asking him to absolve my sins, to teach me the mysteries of the universe, or to carry me to an alternate heavenly plane. I just want rain to feed the crops (it does) and the storm not to destroy my house ( it hasn't) and so we're good.



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« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 11:32:28 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Nycteris

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2012, 10:21:03 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
Hello everyone.

I've been looking into pagan beliefs for a while now, I am agnostic and just trying to find myself, I do believe in a higher form of power, but I do not accept the more bigger religions like Christianity.

I just have some questions for you all.

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


Thanks for all the help guys!

 
1. because i have seen enough factual/historical/archeological evidence to not believe in yahweh and jesus. I believe in my gods because they are the most ancient and worshipped, under many different names, i choose to call them by their demon names because that is right for me within my Satanist beliefs, others on this forum worship the same gods but they might call them Isis instead of Astaroth for example. These demons are derived from the gods worshipped on this forum mostly.

2. there is no right or wrong, personally i believe we reincarnate until we find the path to godhead (be this through paganism, satanism, etc) and i would be happy to go to hell, as this is where i believe we are placed until reincarnation (hell is not a negative concept for me)

3. because i've always looked for explanations, answers, and i always felt like other religions were keeping them from me, i chose to align myself with Satanism because it believes this knowledge should be with humans, and because i believe Satan is the original god of humanity, under different names, and his intention was for us to possess this occult knowledge that judaism and christianity keeps for the elite. also quite literally demonised our god to keep us from seeking this knowledge

i mean no disrespect towards these religions, and i certainly dont want to sound like a JoS'er but this is how i see things at this moment.
Ave Satana
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Elani Temperance

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2012, 11:26:27 am »
Quote from: Nycteris;57202
...I believe in my gods because they are the most ancient and worshipped, under many different names, i choose to call them by their demon names because that is right for me within my Satanist beliefs, others on this forum worship the same gods but they might call them Isis instead of Astaroth for example.

~Nycteris

 
Tiiiiny post to say that, see bolted part above, applies to some but most definitely not all people on this forum, let alone in Paganism. For the hard polytheists amongst us, most (if not all) Gods and Goddesses are separate entities who are worshipped as such.

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Nycteris

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2012, 12:08:50 pm »
Quote from: LittleWitchMagazine;57224
Tiiiiny post to say that, see bolted part above, applies to some but most definitely not all people on this forum, let alone in Paganism. For the hard polytheists amongst us, most (if not all) Gods and Goddesses are separate entities who are worshipped as such.

-- Elani

 
I stand corrected. My personal belief dictates however, that the Demons of the Goetia represent these same entities, who should be worshipped and revered instead of feared. It would be the same as you worshipping me by my forum nickname instead of my real life name, it would still reach me and i would view it as a personal choice. Correct me if i'm wrong ;) im not very familiar with other pagan religions and their beliefs, i simply stated my beliefs, certainly not trying to speak for others if thats how it came across

PlaceboArtist

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2012, 02:56:22 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

Personally, I don't believe in Thor or Zeus. I do believe in Jesus - he was a real man who lived about 2000 years ago and had very sound teachings on the treatment of others. I'm a Pantheist - essentially an atheist who sees beauty in the cycles of nature. But I also see all the gods as personifications of and metaphors for aspects of nature and human life - and each culture, being affected by much the same things (weather, the sun and moon, justice, war) has their own personification of the same concepts. I'm sure about it because I have looked at various belief systems and found out for myself what it feels like to encounter the 'deities' in meditation, but my view of the current evidence available prompts me to disbelieve in anything supernatural.

Quote
2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

I don't believe in Hell. Or Hel, for that matter. If I end up in either I shall be so interested in finding out how the **** I am able to perceive the Otherworld with no working body and senses that I won't care about the burning or the desolate coldness.

Quote
3) Why did you pick your belief?

I accept that, having experienced life in a different way to me, others will make different conclusions from all the evidence available in the world. But the only conclusion I can make that is consistent with everything I know to be the case, is that the human imagination is highly capable and - more importantly - useful for accomplishing goals.

After all, visualisation and ritual has been proven to work!

Elani Temperance

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2012, 03:25:46 pm »
Quote from: Nycteris;57235
I stand corrected. My personal belief dictates however, that the Demons of the Goetia represent these same entities, who should be worshipped and revered instead of feared. It would be the same as you worshipping me by my forum nickname instead of my real life name, it would still reach me and i would view it as a personal choice. Correct me if i'm wrong ;) im not very familiar with other pagan religions and their beliefs, i simply stated my beliefs, certainly not trying to speak for others if thats how it came across

 

No problem. I have complete respect for your religion and way of thinking. I simply meant to indicate that others may be of a different opinion :-)
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Malia

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2012, 09:11:07 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
Hello everyone.

I've been looking into pagan beliefs for a while now, I am agnostic and just trying to find myself, I do believe in a higher form of power, but I do not accept the more bigger religions like Christianity.

I just have some questions for you all.

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


Thanks for all the help guys!

 
1) My family and I once defined ourselves as Christian, but we never went to church. I was uncomfortable praying before meals at family gatherings. I didn't pray before going to bed. But I also was in no way a "sinner", which is why I was confused as to why Jesus was never around. It finally dawned on me that he simply would never be around--for me, at least. I went through a long phase of atheism which went hand in hand with a period of depression (still recovering from that, but it's going well), and then I met a girl in my Creative Writing class. She was the first Pagan I met (although, my friends were actually all Pagan and were just being quiet about it for the understandable reason of protection). She told me about this incident from a few years back when she was so depressed that she attempted suicide by eating some nightshade. It didn't work. Not because her parents got involved and rushed her to the hospital, and not because she made herself throw it back up, but because she heard the voice of one of the deities she honored (I forget what they said! D: ) interfered (she's doing pretty well nowadays, if any of you were concerned). To hear about actual divine interference, a near-miracle like that immediately caught my curiosity. I began researching, and here I am now.
I'm sure about my beliefs because of this big spectacle Rhiannon (a Welsh goddess) put on on my birthday. I must have been ignoring Her, because She had the most noticeable to me, subtly there to others divine equivalent of a "Look over here!" sign going. So, yeah, She's there alright, I'm pretty sure about it.

2) I don't think I'm on the wrong path. I've been getting more sensitive to energies recently, and I feel nothing negative about what I'm doing. I've figured out that the path I'm currently on is to overcome the long bout of depression I mentioned, and to straighten out my communication issues--Rhiannon is being kind enough to reflect them, to mimic me to show me what I'm doing wrong. Anyhow, I don't think I'll end up in the Celtic equivalent of hell (which is probably being reborn as an insect, especially something that's hunted). I've been pretty good so far about avoiding conflict and pulling stupid sh!t. I've read through some threads, and I think that after Rhiannon's done helping me, She won't need to be around anymore and someone will replace her to help with whatever new circumstances there are to be dealt with. I don't care if the next deity is Greek or Kemetic or what have you; druidry can still be practiced under different traditions.

3) It's not so much that I picked my "belief" as it was that the "belief" picked me. Starting out, I was being eclectic, building a list of deities to honor from Celtic, Nordic, and Greek pantheons. It was an excessively long list; I had the nine Muses, several Celtic deities, and Frejya on there. And you know what? None of them ever talked to me, even after I'd narrowed it down to a Celtic path. When I narrowed it down to being something involving Brighid and Rhiannon, that's when Rhiannon decided to knock on my door.

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2013, 11:03:55 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409


1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


 
1.  There is proof to be found in many places on earth, but mankind's scriptures and holy books only attempt to describe the unfathomable, so there will be inaccuracies in every religion, especially since leaders in religion are very few compared to the masses of followers who can't seek out truth themselves, who would rather subscribe themselves to a religion and allow themselves to be programmed by somebody else's theories or books rather than going out and actually contacting the forces above and below themselves.

And even of the leaders, there are few among them who legitimately use the wisdom and power they have gained to do great things for the gods- too often the powers of manipulation that creating a religion gives them corrupts these religious leaders into using humans as resources and neglecting their gods... if they even really knew any gods to begin with.  Humans make excellent resources, but when you neglect the gods after anything they have done for you, what are these humans thinking?

Humans nowadays assume their bedroom is the best place to make contact with the gods rather than finding a significant place in nature to construct magnificant temples and altars to get the gods' attention.  Gone are those days for most.  And they wonder why the only "proof" they get is some tingly feeling, or something they choose to interpret as an omen. Wtf.  Sure when you can interact with a god or goddess on a personal level, you can reach them anywhere.  But to be more than some weak mortal pet you must do extraordinary things for them.

2.  Various Hells do exist,but not always in the way people think of them.  There are paths to get there, but there are paths to reincarnation as well, which is my path.  But like the Goddess Ishtar whom I respect most above all other Goddesses,  I do not fear that realm.  I would be honored to gain experience and wisdom from such a legendary kingdom.

3.  By belief I assume you mean religion.  My beliefs may be most in common with eclecticism, and I resonate most with 09A, but personally I don't care for -isms and religions.  Such chains and restrictions I have no need for.  As if every human must be classified and sorted into some group and given a label.  To Hell with human programming and indoctrination.  I'll read every religious and mythological text I can find to learn how other humans attempt to describe the gods who have already presented themselves to me.  I had a similar mindset when it came to martial arts.  Why restrict yourself to one style of combat when there is so much to be learned?  So much one could use in their quest?

I did not "pick" my "belief" because my beliefs were not listed in the catalogue of available already created religions.  Hence I have no religion but plenty of beliefs.

If you had asked, why do I believe as I do, it would be because I am no follower, no slave, no sheep or drone, no mindless indoctrinated soul.  I choose to be as free as I can.  I believe in what I have experienced, what I know to exist above and below and what I allow to have an affect on my choices. I believe in perfect moral balance- something many will never understand or relate to.

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2013, 01:21:27 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

I have had a tendency towards animism and pantheism. It was personal experiences with the gods, however, that guided me towards polytheism and the belief in magic. I probably would be fully sceptical if I had not experienced it myself.

Quote
2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

No. I don't believe in a hell. And such concepts are rare in both ancient myth and modern Pagan religion. Even in cases where punishment after death is described, it is for one's deeds, not one's beliefs.

Quote
3) Why did you pick your belief?

I don't feel like I picked them. I feel that I was compelled by the evidence I had before me.
If you're asking why I picked my religion, that's another story.

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Randall

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