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Author Topic: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?  (Read 8739 times)

Holdasown

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2012, 09:42:10 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


1.) I have come to the place either all gods are real or none are. I can't say what made me sure other then I feel it inside that they are there. I was a Christian at one point. . I started out trying to hold on to some Christian aspect but really can't anymore. I am far to drawn to the Norse gods/goddesses now.

2.) I don't worry about hell but I have thought about my relatives who are Christian who I love dearly being in heaven and me being in Helheim. I don't know how it will all work.

3.) I didn't pick it has come to me. I can't say why it happened like it has.

I missed 4. and 5.

4.) People seem to do it all the time and it works for them. Some gods/ goddesses who represent the same thing would work well together I would imagine.

5.) Science is science and faith is faith. Neither has to conflict. The natural world works the way it does and the gods are on a different plane. It's why people leave there body or have a shamanic journey to reach those places.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 09:51:23 am by Holdasown »

Darkhawk

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2012, 09:44:29 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54444

5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?

 
I still don't do belief, because it is still futile.

The existence of air is sufficient proof of the body of Shu, who is the animate void.  No explanation is required.  Knowledge of the atmosphere is deeper knowledge of Shu.

To hold that Set is nonexistent would be to say that thunder does not happen.  He's right there.
as the water grinds the stone
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as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Darkhawk

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2012, 10:07:28 am »
Quote from: Jenett;54498
Why does it have to be 'instead'? I believe Jesus exists. I believe lots and lots of Gods exist. Just like there are lots and lots of people in the world, but I only have relationships with some of them, and I only have really close relationships with a much smaller number.

 
And 'recognition of the existence of' is in no way the same as 'belief in'.

I don't go out and check that there's mail in the mailbox and affirm that I believe in the postman.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Rhyshadow

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2012, 10:18:14 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
I've been looking into pagan beliefs for a while now, I am agnostic and just trying to find myself, I do believe in a higher form of power, but I do not accept the more bigger religions like Christianity.

I just have some questions for you all.


Originally, I wasn't going to post in here - feelings of snarkiness; but answering questions beats out bad vibes, so here goes

Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?


Well, having a couple of them actually talk to me made a difference - the Carpenter's son never made that connection with me, where-as the others have.  It's not an 'all-the-time' thing, just every so often they'll tap me on the astral-shoulder and we'll have a short chat.

Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?


I look at it thise way - there are many paths to Deity and "salvation"; if you want to call it that.  You just have to find the one that fits your personal viewpoints and do your best to live a good life that brings you peace, is helpful to others and respects their beliefs.

Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
3) Why did you pick your belief?


More like my personal viewpoints and sense of self picked it rather than a conscious choice.  I think most of us are that way, we search for a long time till something "clicks" with us and we go "YES!!!  That's It"

Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
4). Do pagans believe in all the gods? Like could I for instance, have a shrine to Zeus and Thor? Or am I only limited to a specific belief like Greek or Norse?


Depends on the path you follow, really.  Personally I'm coming more in line with the Irish pantheon, though up till a little while ago, Thor was one of my Patrons and I still respect and honor him even though he's not "looking over my shoulder" now.  Just because I mainly honor and worship the Irish gods doesn't mean the others don't exist, just that I don't have the connection with them; just as a Kemetic links more for the Egyptian pantheon and a Hellenic follows the Grecco-Roman gods, but they acknowledge that the others exist

Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?


As a scientist by training myself (Biology, chemistry, astronomy) I'm quite familiar with the HOW of natural phenomenon; what spirituality/religion work on answering is the WHY.  WHY did the Big-Bang happen the way it did, WHY is the Earth at the exact right distance from Sol, WHY did a pair of proteins combine the way they did in the primordial soup, etc, etc, etc.  We know HOW lightning occurs, what the God/desses give us is the WHY of it all.

cigfran

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2012, 10:34:51 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?

4) Do pagans believe in all the gods? Like could I for instance, have a shrine to Zeus and Thor? Or am I only limited to a specific belief like Greek or Norse?

5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?

 
1) I'm not. Certainty is for zealots and the incurious.

2) This sounds like a variant of Pascal's Wager, which has no bearing on my worldview. To begin with, I don't believe in any hell at all. More importantly, religious views that have anything to do with "hell" as goad for one's life strike me as perverse.

3) I didn't. I did choose what form I would frame my expression of some of those beliefs in, but the beliefs themselves are inherent.

4) Some do, some don't. The only limitation, in the end, is the boundary of what's meaningful to you.

5) This is a vast oversimplification, common to modern agnostics, that has very little to do with actual anthropology or history of religion. And "what makes lightning" has nothing at all to do with the deeply poetic - and sophisticated - human tendency to deal with the natural world in metaphors.

Agonistes

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2012, 11:31:40 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54458
Also, are there any books you can recommened me about current day greek mythology believers, I think its called hellenismos?

 

A Beginner's Guide to Hellenismos by Timothy Jay Alexander
Old Stones, New Temples by Andrew Campbell
Greek Religion: Archaic and Classical (Ancient World) by Walter Burkert and John Raffan

Also, don't forgot about the sources we derive mostly all we know from:
Theogony by Hesiod (I would start with this)
    or Mythology by Edith Hamilton is WONDERFUL.
Works and Days by Hesiod
Iliad by Homer
Odyssey by Homer
Works by Sophocles, Euripides, and Aeschylus.

dawbeast

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2012, 03:26:52 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;54508

I don't go out and check that there's mail in the mailbox and affirm that I believe in the postman.

 
ha i like that!

fallenangel

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2012, 05:36:33 pm »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409
Hello everyone.

I've been looking into pagan beliefs for a while now, I am agnostic and just trying to find myself, I do believe in a higher form of power, but I do not accept the more bigger religions like Christianity.

I just have some questions for you all.

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?

2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?

3) Why did you pick your belief?


Thanks for all the help guys!

 
!) What makes me so sure about my beliefs? I have to believe in something, if I don't what is the point in going through life? For me, my beliefs (I am still trying to sort them all out) are what shape me as a person. What makes me who I am. Am I worried about picking the wrong one? Not at all....I believe a person's faith chooses them and somethimes, you have to experiment in order to find the right one. I am a Christian as well and I have been blessed with family and friends from all different backgrounds that enable me to keep an open mind. At a young age, I was exposed to a plethora of different religions, and have found something pleasing about them all.

2) As far as dying in whtever "hell" that exists, I could care less about that. I have been through hell several times in this lifetime and it was my faith that kept me going through it when other's would of ran back the way they came. I'm a much stronger person because of it. Since I believe in reincarnation, I won't be losing any sleep over what happens when we depart this life.

3) I didn't pick my belief...it picked me.

I haven't read any of the responses yet...but I am a little taken aback by the tone of the questions...it's almost as if there isn't any "right" answers that you are looking for.  Just my opinion.

Dashifen

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2012, 07:37:33 pm »
Unlike some of the others in the thread, I did pick my religion.  I studied a lot of different faiths during my teenage years, and when I found Paganism, it felt far more logical to me than the others that I studied.  Each of those, for a variety of reasons that are out of scope for this discussion, were problematic for me but Paganism, and polytheism in general, seemed to explain things better to me than monotheism and atheism.  So, in essence, after a search, I chose to be Pagan.  This is not to say that I haven't had numinous experiences, but I had numinous experiences in the religion of my childhood/parents (Judaism), too.  

As for Hell, that's never been a part of my cosmology.  Judaism doesn't really have a Hell; there is she'ol but depending on the interpretation, that's just where all the dead go.  In fact, depending on the specific tradition with in Judaism, there really isn't a focus on the afterlife.  Like Paganism, Judaism is focused on the here-and-now and living a good life in this world for this world rather than doing so in search of a reward in the next.  As such, I don't worry about Hell at all.

Regarding the other questions, I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been covered.  Not sure if the original poster is still reading the thread, but if shklee is, hopefully this was valuable.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2012, 08:08:34 pm »
Quote from: Dashifen;54597


 
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This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

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Dashifen

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2012, 09:20:28 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;54606
A Reminder:
Dashifen,

Just a quick note:  Please remember to quote, even if you're just  replying to the first message in the thread.


Yeah, the android app makes it harder.

Aster Breo

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What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2012, 09:44:33 pm »
Quote from: Dashifen;54615
Yeah, the android app makes it harder.

Are you referring to Tapatalk?  If so, I had the same confusion at first.  ;)

If you tap on the post to which you're replying, the background will turn yellow and a menu will pop up that includes an option to "Quote".  

Tap that, and it brings up the reply window with the post already quoted.  Then you can just trim the parts you don't need to include.

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Sharysa

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2012, 12:23:28 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54444
5) We know, or can assume that the ancient gods and godesses were created because humans couldn't explain what thunder or snow was. How do you justify believing in these gods today where we can prove what makes lightning?

We can prove how lightning is created, but we still can't explain why it happens in the first place. Why does so much electricity make so much light and noise? Why does it turn the whole fucking sky blue, and why is that much electricity so focused when it's hot enough to cook everything around it for a mile?

I believe in the gods because while we can understand what makes a force of nature do what it does, the gods can still control it.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:24:19 am by Sharysa »
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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2012, 01:44:08 am »
Quote from: Sharysa;54643
We can prove how lightning is created, but we still can't explain why it happens in the first place. Why does so much electricity make so much light and noise? Why does it turn the whole fucking sky blue, and why is that much electricity so focused when it's hot enough to cook everything around it for a mile?

I believe in the gods because while we can understand what makes a force of nature do what it does, the gods can still control it.

 
We actually have a pretty good grasp on why lightning happens.  The various forces that create a storm are complex enough that their exact location and intensity are sometimes hard to predict, but we do understand what combination of forces creates them, and how they do so.  I learned about this stuff in earth sciences class in junior high, and I don't remember gods being mentioned.

When people talk about the "why" of spirituality, they tend to be talking about human interaction with the world.  How we filter and interpret the thunderstorm rather than the storm itself.

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Re: What makes you so sure about your beliefs?
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2012, 07:54:58 am »
Quote from: GKDAIR;54409

1) What makes you so sure about your beliefs? Why do you believe in pagan gods like thor and or zeus instead of jesus?


I'm a hard agnostic and a hard polytheist.  In other words, I don't think it's possible to be certain either way on the existence of gods (which side of the fence I lean towards varies depending on my mood), but if they do, I'd see them as distinct figures.

So not only am I fine with uncertainty, I embrace it.  It allows me to constantly challenge and evolve my practise.

I don't necessarily reject the existence of the Christian god, I simply don't worship him.  I do doubt that he's omnipotent, mostly because I've never been able to philosophically reconcile that with the problem of evil; even the best Christian arguments on the subject aren't very convincing for me.

Quote
2) With all these different pagan beliefs, aren't you worried you picked the wrong one and will die in whatever "hell" exists?


No, because I don't believe there is a single ultimate truth.  There are things that are true for me, which might not be true for other people.  There are also truths that are directly counterposed to mine.  This doesn't mean I deny their truthfulness for their adherents, merely that I recognise that we can't peacefully coexist and are enemies.  (The latter is a pretty small category.  Stuff like neonazis mostly).

Quote
3) Why did you pick your belief?


For the lulz.

Sorry, that was unhelpful and I'm very childish for being so amused by it.

Unlike a lot of other people, I did pick my path, after coming across the ideas and liking them.  As my terminology suggests, I'm in a different position that a lot of other people; I have a path/way of working, not a religion.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

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