What is Shamanism?

[herbs of airmid]

I know that the word is Siberian and therefor most uses of it are incorrect, but what do people mean when they say 'Shamanism'? For example, Steve Sic, the founder of Omnia, describes himself as a European intuitive shaman. Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

Sorry if that lot doesn't make total sense,
Herbs Of Airmid

[Allaya]

I know that the word is Siberian and therefor most uses of it are incorrect, but what do people mean when they say 'Shamanism'? For example, Steve Sic, the founder of Omnia, describes himself as a European intuitive shaman. Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

Sorry if that lot doesn't make total sense,
Herbs Of Airmid

 
Lemme just make sure that I understand the question.

You're aware that Shamanism (with a capital S) is a word that western people really have no business using to describe themselves, therefore you are wanting to know if there is a name for a similar toolkit that is used by folks of European extraction?

Since I'm not sure of the exact question you're asking, I will give a general and offhand answer: the words you are probably looking for are Tranceworker (Tranceworking) and Hedgerider (Hedgeriding).

[baduhmtisss]

I know that the word is Siberian and therefor most uses of it are incorrect, but what do people mean when they say 'Shamanism'? For example, Steve Sic, the founder of Omnia, describes himself as a European intuitive shaman. Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

Sorry if that lot doesn't make total sense,
Herbs Of Airmid

 
I think that they mean practices that usually get gathered under the term "Shamanism". Allaya might have the right term here when she says "TranceWorking"/"TranceWorker".

[SunflowerP]

I know that the word is Siberian and therefor most uses of it are incorrect, but what do people mean when they say 'Shamanism'? For example, Steve Sic, the founder of Omnia, describes himself as a European intuitive shaman. Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

Sorry if that lot doesn't make total sense,
Herbs Of Airmid

 
Unfortunately, what a lot of those who use it mean is very individual, idiosyncratic, and, not infrequently, stuffed with romanticized misconceptions. So there's no 'what do people mean by that?' that wouldn't fill a book or several. It's fairly likely that most (but not necessarily all) of them are influenced (to greater or lesser degree, directly or indirectly) by the so-called 'core shamanism' of Michael Harner and the FSS, and/or by Carlos Castaneda, Lynn Andrews, etc, or the armchair anthropology of Eliade, but that doesn't narrow it down much.

When you say that there 'must' be a European equivalent, what do you mean? Why 'must' there be? What would be 'equivalent', and what wouldn't, for you, and why?

If what you're getting at is, 'There is a Thing there, some practices that seem to go together, that people often label "shamanic" and that I don't know another word for - what word might fit?', that could depend on just what practices you wanted to collectively identify. Some words/phrases that people have come up with to fill that gap are spiritworker, worldwalker or Walker Between the Worlds, liminalist, practical and practicing animist, and technician of the sacred. Allaya mentioned tranceworker and hedgerider; akin to that is hedgewitch (in one of its uses; there are a couple of other uses that aren't relevant here), and some people find that simply calling themselves witches works.

Sunflower

[DavidMcCann]

You're aware that Shamanism (with a capital S) is a word that western people really have no business using to describe themselves

Why? That's like saying that one religion can claim the right to the word priest. I have a book on Daoism by a Chinese author and one on Shinto by a Japanese professor, both of whom are happy to use the term for their own cultures. And how narrowly are you going to restrict it? It comes from Evenki: can other Tungusic nations use it? Turks? Mongols? If its use upsets Alice Kehoe and her like, so be it,

[Jack]

Why? That's like saying that one religion can claim the right to the word priest. I have a book on Daoism by a Chinese author and one on Shinto by a Japanese professor, both of whom are happy to use the term for their own cultures. And how narrowly are you going to restrict it? It comes from Evenki: can other Tungusic nations use it? Turks? Mongols? If its use upsets Alice Kehoe and her like, so be it,

 
And I'm sure that Japanese professor would be thrilled if animists started calling their religion Shinto, too.

[Nightwind]

I know that the word is Siberian and therefor most uses of it are incorrect, but what do people mean when they say 'Shamanism'? For example, Steve Sic, the founder of Omnia, describes himself as a European intuitive shaman. Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

Sorry if that lot doesn't make total sense,
Herbs Of Airmid

 
I'm sorry that people jumped all over you and got really confrontational. That usually doesn't happen here and I hope that you don't see us all as being so reactionary and have a good time on the forum. For some reason the use of the term shamanism pisses a lot of people off. I could really care less what you want to call what you personally do. I guess if you are a scholor writing about it you should know what you are talking about but eh...

They seemed to not understand that you knew where the term came from and wondered why other people were using it (I assumed that is what you meant?) and also figured there must be a precedent for using it elsewhere. Many moons ago I think that people who were writing about religions and practices in other cultures noted that these things were very similar to shamanism and just used the term interchangeably. To me it is the same as people who still to this day will say, Oh well Morrighan is the Celtic Athena and Cernunnos is the Celtic Pan as if all religions and gods have to be equated back to the famous roman/greek gods. Basically what I am trying to say is that Shamans are Shamans, Medicine Men are Medicine Men, etc etc ad nauseum for any specifically cultural name for a religious function and a lot of people like to interchange words when they are describing the function of this or that person in an ancient or current culture if they think other people will understand what they are saying rather than go on for pages about what it is actually called and what is done. This is bad scholarship definitely, and lazy. I hope that is what you were looking for. People use words they don't really understand all the time, it doesn't make them bad people, just misinformed.

[Nyktipolos]

Why? That's like saying that one religion can claim the right to the word priest. I have a book on Daoism by a Chinese author and one on Shinto by a Japanese professor, both of whom are happy to use the term for their own cultures. And how narrowly are you going to restrict it? It comes from Evenki: can other Tungusic nations use it? Turks? Mongols? If its use upsets Alice Kehoe and her like, so be it,

Well, "priest" falls into a much different category, although I'm sure there are Christians out there who would not want those outside their faith using it; it also makes little sense for those who do not work with humans as their primary focus (modern, or past). However we use "priest" because for many of us our culture is strongly rooted in Christian terminology, and it's the first term many come up with when they think of a servant-and-god relationship title. It makes sense (even, as I said, it's not entirely accurate for each relationship). Not so much for "shaman", though.

But I mean, if you have no issue with continuing to use a term that is rooted in the cultural appropriation of another culture and okaying the oppressive nature of non-Siberian peoples using the terminology, go right ahead! We aren't the thought-police here and no one is going to come to your door and hand you a cease and desist letter. But on the same note, that doesn't stop us from addressing the problematic nature of the term being used and the way it is being used.

[Nyktipolos]

I'm sorry that people jumped all over you and got really confrontational. That usually doesn't happen here and I hope that you don't see us all as being so reactionary and have a good time on the forum.

I actually didn't see anyone jumping on the OP in this thread, and for good reason, considering this is a beginner's forum. However, it is par for the course on TC when people are asking about stuff (in this case, the OP was asking what shamanism was) to point out if the concept, idea, or group is problematic, and to back that up, while making sure it is accessible for the person to understand.

For some reason the use of the term shamanism pisses a lot of people off. I could really care less what you want to call what you personally do. I guess if you are a scholor writing about it you should know what you are talking about but eh...

It may not piss you off, but unless you are from a Siberian tribe, I don't think it is up to you (or anyone non-Siberian) to decide whether or not usage outside the culture is offensive. And considering that there are many cultures out there who do not like the term being used for their practices (foremost in my mind: there are many Native nations who do not want the term used, as they have their own terms), I think we should defer to them?
 
You've actually given me a great idea: we should see if we can come up with a small wiki entry or article discussing shamans and shamanism and how it can be problematic to use the term, that we could link to a beginner. Even better if we can find some accessible resources to link to that article as well they can peruse on their own time. I'll have to see what I've got hidden away on my bookmarks, actually ...

[Allaya]

I'm sorry that people jumped all over you and got really confrontational. That usually doesn't happen here and I hope that you don't see us all as being so reactionary and have a good time on the forum. For some reason the use of the term shamanism pisses a lot of people off. I could really care less what you want to call what you personally do. I guess if you are a scholor writing about it you should know what you are talking about but eh...

They seemed to not understand that you knew where the term came from and wondered why other people were using it (I assumed that is what you meant?) and also figured there must be a precedent for using it elsewhere. Many moons ago I think that people who were writing about religions and practices in other cultures noted that these things were very similar to shamanism and just used the term interchangeably. To me it is the same as people who still to this day will say, Oh well Morrighan is the Celtic Athena and Cernunnos is the Celtic Pan as if all religions and gods have to be equated back to the famous roman/greek gods. Basically what I am trying to say is that Shamans are Shamans, Medicine Men are Medicine Men, etc etc ad nauseum for any specifically cultural name for a religious function and a lot of people like to interchange words when they are describing the function of this or that person in an ancient or current culture if they think other people will understand what they are saying rather than go on for pages about what it is actually called and what is done. This is bad scholarship definitely, and lazy. I hope that is what you were looking for. People use words they don't really understand all the time, it doesn't make them bad people, just misinformed.

 
Could you please point out who was being confrontational towards the OP? Or jumped all over them?

See, generally when I'm not sure what someone is asking, I will restate what I think they are asking and then answer accordingly. Any misunderstandings can then be easily corrected.

Also, the reason that the word 'Shamanism' being used out of context annoys people is because Words Mean Things. The techniques of Shamanism are not shared with other cultures. The similarities are superficial and only show up when you sanitize the technique by stripping it of all context in which it occurs in the original culture.

Basically, those techniques in those cultures are Shamanism. Change the culture or the technique and suddenly it ain't Shamanism anymore.

[Darkhawk]

Obviously this means something specific for him, but there must be a European equivalent of Shamanism and I am interested in what it is.

 
You might want to consider which European culture or cultures you are looking for similar practices within, since Europe encompasses quite a few, as well.

A mantic priest in classical Greece is a rather different thing than an Old Irish fili or a Norse seidhkona, just to pick a few off the top of my head.

[DavidMcCann]

And I'm sure that Japanese professor would be thrilled if animists started calling their religion Shinto, too.

Actually, he says that anyone who venerates the spirits of the land and of their ancestors has understood Shinto. And remember, the term Shinto is simply the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese Shendao, one of the names of Chinese Traditional Religion. I haven't noticed the Chinese screaming "cultural appropriation"! Political correctness is probably a USian disease.

[Sophia C]

Actually, he says that anyone who venerates the spirits of the land and of their ancestors has understood Shinto. And remember, the term Shinto is simply the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese Shendao, one of the names of Chinese Traditional Religion. I haven't noticed the Chinese screaming "cultural appropriation"! Political correctness is probably a USian disease.

 
You appear to be trying to speak for an entire country. I am a British citizen who is very much affected by that terrible disease colloquially known as manners.

And furthermore, I'm from a background of people who know all about what happens when the Brits culturally appropriate. And, while I live here, I will continue to speak up against cultural appropriation. Let's NOT DO IT, and make up for all the years of colonialism. That would be nice.

[herbs of airmid]

When you say that there 'must' be a European equivalent, what do you mean? Why 'must' there be?

Ok, everyone, unlock those antlers and please stop arguing about whether it is appropriate to use the word Shamanism and in what context - I'm not really interested in it. This is what I was trying to ask:

Shamanism comes from the Evenk tribes in Siberia. They are nomadic. There must have been similar nomadic tribes in Europe at some point (because the Celts, the Danes and the Vikings were not the only people to have lived here), probably with similar practices. Have these also been modernised and if so, what are they generally known as? Thank you to Allaya for suggesting Tranceworker and Hedgerider.

[Chabas]

Ok, everyone, unlock those antlers and please stop arguing about whether it is appropriate to use the word Shamanism and in what context - I'm not really interested in it.

 

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Airmid, TC has a long tradition of discussion and debate. So long as this doesn't involve personal attacks or other breaches of our rules, that's not a problem. None of the posts in this thread so far break any rules. TC rules, however, do state that you are to leave moderation to staff, and cannot tell people how to post. The comments I quoted above cross that line. If you feel rules are being broken, please report it to staff and let us deal with it. This is your first formal warning; three warnings will lead to a temporary gag. --Chabas TC Staff