collapse

* Recent Posts

Author Topic: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?  (Read 2210 times)

Castus

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Virginia
  • Posts: 824
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 77
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Catechumen of an Anglo-Catholic mood, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« on: October 22, 2016, 11:07:23 am »
So, I'm only recently getting back into the wider pagan community and I'm starting to notice a very conscious dichotomy between "polytheism" and "paganism" that I did not hitherto know existed; especially from some bloggers I've followed for awhile such as P. Sufenas Virius Lupus, Sannion, Galina Krasskova, etc etc. Can anyone give me more info on this or how it originated?
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

Demophon

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 258
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 11:42:27 am »
Quote from: Castus;197778
So, I'm only recently getting back into the wider pagan community and I'm starting to notice a very conscious dichotomy between "polytheism" and "paganism" that I did not hitherto know existed; especially from some bloggers I've followed for awhile such as P. Sufenas Virius Lupus, Sannion, Galina Krasskova, etc etc. Can anyone give me more info on this or how it originated?

 
I think it has something to do with distinguishing paths based on historical polytheistic cultures from the modern New Age movement, and the religions that are usually lumped into that category, like Wicca and its eclectic modifications. Although, in my experience, there isn't much of a difference, and it becomes a pretentious assertion of intellectual superiority. P. Sufenas Virius Lupus in particular just likes to give himself unique labels for attention. People in the pagan community love to act like special snowflakes.

Castus

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Virginia
  • Posts: 824
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 77
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Catechumen of an Anglo-Catholic mood, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 11:54:10 am »
Quote from: Demophon;197779
I think it has something to do with distinguishing paths based on historical polytheistic cultures from the modern New Age movement, and the religions that are usually lumped into that category, like Wicca and its eclectic modifications. Although, in my experience, there isn't much of a difference, and it becomes a pretentious assertion of intellectual superiority. P. Sufenas Virius Lupus in particular just likes to give himself unique labels for attention. People in the pagan community love to act like special snowflakes.


Interesting. I can see why some might feel such a clarification is necessary. And don't be mean to Sufenas! They're a good person >_>
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

Redfaery

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1345
  • Total likes: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 12:03:10 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;197779
Although, in my experience, there isn't much of a difference, and it becomes a pretentious assertion of intellectual superiority. =

 
I gotta agree with this assertion. I have yet to see a person pull out the "I'm not pagan, I'm a POLYTHEIST" bit without there being a strong subtext of "I'm not a fluffy, like those people." Which is frankly kind of rude.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Phouka

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 223
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 01:01:13 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;197779
I think it has something to do with distinguishing paths based on historical polytheistic cultures from the modern New Age movement, and the religions that are usually lumped into that category, like Wicca and its eclectic modifications. Although, in my experience, there isn't much of a difference, and it becomes a pretentious assertion of intellectual superiority. P. Sufenas Virius Lupus in particular just likes to give himself unique labels for attention. People in the pagan community love to act like special snowflakes.

 
Putting my two cents in here, I am an Irish pagan polytheist. For me, polytheism is the belief that each God is a separate being. In other words, Macha, Rhiannon, and Epona are all associated with sovereignty / horses / fertilti. Many pagans conflate them as did the Romans with Sulis-Minerva. However, in my practice, I am a Priest of Macha and a dedicant of Epona. They are separate and distinct personalities in my UPG.
Now, my Coven is Eclectic Wicca.  I am the High Priestess. Within our Coven many pantheons are acknowledged and invited into our rituals. Although we call the Wiccan Goddess, and God,  we welcome them into the circle in their own way.

Now, I do have something to say about one of the authors the OP mentioned. I knew Galena Krasskova about 15 or so twenty years ago. She was the 'leader' of a Coven following the Fellowship for Isis. I am very suspicious of anything she is directly associated with, including covens, because she was an abusive and sell promoting leader, who did not care for those in her coven. She physically, verbally, and emotionally abused everyone in the group. I witnessed Ms. Krasskova 'channel' Tyr and physically assault another person in the group. When I objected, she turned on me and tried to assault me. When I refused to bow down to her authority, and walked out with another person, she warlocked me and cursed me with the thing she THOUGHT scared me most... Macha.

I've kept the threatening emails she sent to my friend who walked out that night. They are sad and also hysterically funny.

I am only telling you what I Personally witnessed and experienced.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 5005
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 902
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 01:57:58 pm »
Quote from: Castus;197778
So, I'm only recently getting back into the wider pagan community and I'm starting to notice a very conscious dichotomy between "polytheism" and "paganism" that I did not hitherto know existed; especially from some bloggers I've followed for awhile such as P. Sufenas Virius Lupus, Sannion, Galina Krasskova, etc etc. Can anyone give me more info on this or how it originated?

 
Sunflower has said that there's a background to this before it came to my awareness, which is something that I'm going to note here for the record; that there was originally a response from the harder polytheists to some of the tendencies of general Wiccish paganism to ignore and dismiss those perspectives.  This is actually true.

However, it being true does not change the fact that basically it went near-instantly off the rails, with things like howling religious persecution about an atheist student group making a "graveyard of gods" somewhere.  (Which is where I first heard of people doing this thing - people who were undeniably a product of the Pagan Cultural Soup saying that no, they were Not Pagans, despite the fact that they were wandering around dripping broth everywhere.)

It has gone increasingly batshit since, with, at this point, a variety of these hardline polytheists not only insisting that they are polytheistic, not pagan, but that "polytheism" means something more than "having multiple gods" and entails certain perspectives on belief and practice that others must adhere to in order to be sufficiently pure.

The #mypolytheism response is a backlash from other polytheists against that strand, meanwhile.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 5005
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 902
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 02:01:19 pm »
Quote from: Castus;197780
Interesting. I can see why some might feel such a clarification is necessary. And don't be mean to Sufenas! They're a good person >_>

Lupus is, as far as I can tell, a very lonely, hurting person who has decided that eir only chance for social support is throwing in with people who are promulgating a flatly abusive version of polytheism.

I hope e gets somewhere better, but I've given up on communicating with em personally, as no amount of effort on my part leads to success.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 02:01:52 pm by Darkhawk »
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Castus

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Virginia
  • Posts: 824
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 77
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Catechumen of an Anglo-Catholic mood, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 02:32:32 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;197784
Sunflower has said that there's a background to this before it came to my awareness, which is something that I'm going to note here for the record; that there was originally a response from the harder polytheists to some of the tendencies of general Wiccish paganism to ignore and dismiss those perspectives.  This is actually true.

However, it being true does not change the fact that basically it went near-instantly off the rails, with things like howling religious persecution about an atheist student group making a "graveyard of gods" somewhere.  (Which is where I first heard of people doing this thing - people who were undeniably a product of the Pagan Cultural Soup saying that no, they were Not Pagans, despite the fact that they were wandering around dripping broth everywhere.)

It has gone increasingly batshit since, with, at this point, a variety of these hardline polytheists not only insisting that they are polytheistic, not pagan, but that "polytheism" means something more than "having multiple gods" and entails certain perspectives on belief and practice that others must adhere to in order to be sufficiently pure.

The #mypolytheism response is a backlash from other polytheists against that strand, meanwhile.


I remember Heathen Chinese "breaking" the graveyard of god thing. I remember being offended as well; although not necessarily feeling persecuted...
 
Quote from: Darkhawk;197785
Lupus is, as far as I can tell, a very lonely, hurting person who has decided that eir only chance for social support is throwing in with people who are promulgating a flatly abusive version of polytheism.

I hope e gets somewhere better, but I've given up on communicating with em personally, as no amount of effort on my part leads to success.

 
I see. I consider Sufenas to be something of a friend, and have contacted him personally on numerous occasions. I've always found such interaction rewarding.
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8887
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 374
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 08:19:01 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;197783
When I refused to bow down to her authority, and walked out with another person, she warlocked me and cursed me with the thing she THOUGHT scared me most... Macha.

 
You've told that story a number of times over the years on TC, but until now (when it's relevant!) I don't recall that you've ever identified the person who did it.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Yei

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 578
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 153
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Mexica Reconstructionism
  • Preferred Pronouns: He/Him/His
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 12:06:53 am »
Quote from: Demophon;197779
I think it has something to do with distinguishing paths based on historical polytheistic cultures from the modern New Age movement, and the religions that are usually lumped into that category, like Wicca and its eclectic modifications. Although, in my experience, there isn't much of a difference, and it becomes a pretentious assertion of intellectual superiority. P. Sufenas Virius Lupus in particular just likes to give himself unique labels for attention. People in the pagan community love to act like special snowflakes.

 
I actually do make the distinction between the two, though my perspective is a little different. I do it to distinguish between theological issues between different reconstructionist paths.

I actually was not aware that the issue was so contentious.

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Split between Polytheism and Paganism?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 03:15:29 am »
Quote from: Phouka;197783
For me, polytheism is the belief that each God is a separate being.

 
How does that work with 'soft polytheism'?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
181 Replies
20924 Views
Last post February 25, 2015, 07:17:30 pm
by Sefiru
36 Replies
6516 Views
Last post August 18, 2014, 04:52:11 am
by carillion
7 Replies
2040 Views
Last post August 26, 2015, 03:46:35 am
by StagTracker
12 Replies
1544 Views
Last post December 30, 2015, 12:24:53 am
by Freesia
0 Replies
2204 Views
Last post February 22, 2016, 12:47:41 pm
by HarpingHawke

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 40
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal