General/Non-Specific: Seeking: Christian/Secret Polytheist drawn to Pagan Practice

[Beloved]

Hi all. This is my first post/first day on the forum. Apologies for what will almost certainly turn into a lengthy post.

I was practically born a Christian. My dad, along with just about every other man in my family, was a pastor. I was baptized as an infant and dedicated to the Christian God.

I was (am?) a devout Christian.

Despite being a devout Christian, I didn’t realize growing up that my natural relationship with Deity was, frankly, more pagan in flavor than it was Christian. I remember getting in trouble as a kid for drawing circles on the ground to sit and pray in. I always felt God more in nature than in the church, and felt a relational connection to plants and animals. I rejected fundamentalist ideas even as a young child in a fundamentalist church. I knew, deeply, that my God was good and kind and was different than the God often portrayed in sermons. I never believed it was a different God, only that the preachers had not really met Him!

I had very real interactions with Deity as a Christian. Most of that is too personal to go into here, but I could never deny what I experienced. Suffice it to say that God was personal, helpful, and very real in my life.

As an adult, I began studying theology and started realizing how much my personal beliefs differed from those of the Church. I tried very hard to submit to the teachings of the church, truly. When I couldn’t, I began exploring other denominations of Christianity. The word “practice” kept coming to me, that what I really needed was a spiritual practice. This was never emphasized in the fundamentalist belief-centered churches I had grown up in. So I began searching for churches that would give me some sense of spiritual practice.

I was delighted by the liturgical calendar, prayer beads, contemplative prayer, and other practices. Still, I struggled every time I tried to study and accept doctrine.

I continued to read. I imagine that you will all understand how reading can open up a giant can of worms. At this point, I can no longer intellectually assent to the Christian creeds or dogma. After much study in an attempt to strengthen my faith, I have actually lost faith in the Bible. This was devastating. I now strongly suspect that polytheism is “true.” And I find myself very drawn to practices that are considered sinful in my church. I find myself drawn to reading mythology. I’ve began a few very simple practices like smudging my home, lighting a candle or incense for meditation. These are simple, basic things that are actually frowned upon in my church. If anyone saw my bookshelf, oh my! I would probably be shunned. 

Part of all this is due to my life circumstances. I’m going through a horribly painful time and Christianity simply isn’t helping me right now. Typical Christian answers make me angry. God has seemed very absent for the last couple of years, probably because my beliefs have changed, and I feel both sad and angry about this. I find myself longing for a female deity who can relate more to the difficult circumstances I am working through. I find myself connecting more with the upcoming solstice than the advent I usually observe.

I am torn. In the past, any “paganish” worship practices I experimented with were all done to honor the Christian Trinity. But after two years of unanswered prayers and the falling apart of my belief in the Bible, to paraphrase a comment I read somewhere (apologies for forgetting the source), I just want a good relationship with a good deity. Like I had before I began really studying the history and texts of my religion. I want to explore this path more.

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

[Megatherium]

Hi all. This is my first post/first day on the forum. Apologies for what will almost certainly turn into a lengthy post.

I was practically born a Christian. My dad, along with just about every other man in my family, was a pastor. I was baptized as an infant and dedicated to the Christian God.

I was (am?) a devout Christian.

Despite being a devout Christian, I didn’t realize growing up that my natural relationship with Deity was, frankly, more pagan in flavor than it was Christian. I remember getting in trouble as a kid for drawing circles on the ground to sit and pray in. I always felt God more in nature than in the church, and felt a relational connection to plants and animals. I rejected fundamentalist ideas even as a young child in a fundamentalist church. I knew, deeply, that my God was good and kind and was different than the God often portrayed in sermons. I never believed it was a different God, only that the preachers had not really met Him!

I had very real interactions with Deity as a Christian. Most of that is too personal to go into here, but I could never deny what I experienced. Suffice it to say that God was personal, helpful, and very real in my life.

As an adult, I began studying theology and started realizing how much my personal beliefs differed from those of the Church. I tried very hard to submit to the teachings of the church, truly. When I couldn’t, I began exploring other denominations of Christianity. The word “practice” kept coming to me, that what I really needed was a spiritual practice. This was never emphasized in the fundamentalist belief-centered churches I had grown up in. So I began searching for churches that would give me some sense of spiritual practice.

I was delighted by the liturgical calendar, prayer beads, contemplative prayer, and other practices. Still, I struggled every time I tried to study and accept doctrine.

I continued to read. I imagine that you will all understand how reading can open up a giant can of worms. At this point, I can no longer intellectually assent to the Christian creeds or dogma. After much study in an attempt to strengthen my faith, I have actually lost faith in the Bible. This was devastating. I now strongly suspect that polytheism is “true.” And I find myself very drawn to practices that are considered sinful in my church. I find myself drawn to reading mythology. I’ve began a few very simple practices like smudging my home, lighting a candle or incense for meditation. These are simple, basic things that are actually frowned upon in my church. If anyone saw my bookshelf, oh my! I would probably be shunned. 

Part of all this is due to my life circumstances. I’m going through a horribly painful time and Christianity simply isn’t helping me right now. Typical Christian answers make me angry. God has seemed very absent for the last couple of years, probably because my beliefs have changed, and I feel both sad and angry about this. I find myself longing for a female deity who can relate more to the difficult circumstances I am working through. I find myself connecting more with the upcoming solstice than the advent I usually observe.

I am torn. In the past, any “paganish” worship practices I experimented with were all done to honor the Christian Trinity. But after two years of unanswered prayers and the falling apart of my belief in the Bible, to paraphrase a comment I read somewhere (apologies for forgetting the source), I just want a good relationship with a good deity. Like I had before I began really studying the history and texts of my religion. I want to explore this path more.

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

Reading your post made me want to try and help out if possible, but I should be very clear about the limits to the benefits of any advice I may give. I am not a Christian nor did I grow up in a Christian household. I do not know what it is like to live in an environment where membership in a particular religious group is an important part of being a member of a family/community. It appears that one of the major influences in your decisions about your religious practices is the family/community you are a part of. I don't think that I or any outsider can really speak to the specifics of your social circumstances.

However, in terms of your theology and religious beliefs, perhaps I can be of some use. Your post does not strike me as being written by someone who is done with Christianity. It appears, to me at least, that you are simply in a place where some aspects of Christianity are meaningful for you while other aspects of the religion are not. I don't think this is an uncommon situation in this day and age.

My suggestion, depending of course on your social circumstances, would be to look at other branches of Christianity than the one you currently belong to. Perhaps a more liberal form of Christianity may be suitable for you. For example, if you no longer see any intellectual validity in Biblical literalism, there are many branches of Christianity which don't view the Bible as always describing verifiable historical truth. Again, depending on you social circumstances, perhaps transitioning to a different branch of Christianity would be less problematic than changing to a new religion altogether.

[Beloved]

Reading your post made me want to try and help out if possible, but I should be very clear about the limits to the benefits of any advice I may give. I am not a Christian nor did I grow up in a Christian household. I do not know what it is like to live in an environment where membership in a particular religious group is an important part of being a member of a family/community. It appears that one of the major influences in your decisions about your religious practices is the family/community you are a part of. I don't think that I or any outsider can really speak to the specifics of your social circumstances.

However, in terms of your theology and religious beliefs, perhaps I can be of some use. Your post does not strike me as being written by someone who is done with Christianity. It appears, to me at least, that you are simply in a place where some aspects of Christianity are meaningful for you while other aspects of the religion are not. I don't think this is an uncommon situation in this day and age.

My suggestion, depending of course on your social circumstances, would be to look at other branches of Christianity than the one you currently belong to. Perhaps a more liberal form of Christianity may be suitable for you. For example, if you no longer see any intellectual validity in Biblical literalism, there are many branches of Christianity which don't view the Bible as always describing verifiable historical truth. Again, depending on you social circumstances, perhaps transitioning to a different branch of Christianity would be less problematic than changing to a new religion altogether.

Thanks for your insight. I wonder, honestly, if I am done with Christianity or not. I think your advice is right on, except that I've been trying to find that Christian branch for the last four years. I've visited countless churches from all over the spectrum of Christianity, and struggled with them all. I wish I felt free to give a non-Abrahamic religion a real try, but despite my doubts about Christianity I still have a very real fear of turning my back on it.

[Zlote Jablko]

Thanks for your insight. I wonder, honestly, if I am done with Christianity or not. I think your advice is right on, except that I've been trying to find that Christian branch for the last four years. I've visited countless churches from all over the spectrum of Christianity, and struggled with them all. I wish I felt free to give a non-Abrahamic religion a real try, but despite my doubts about Christianity I still have a very real fear of turning my back on it.

I know that fear, to an extent. It has been a long time since I had to face it. There are a lot of people (like my wife) who feel estranged from Christianity, but it still informs a lot of their spirituality. You may just be a monotheist without a denomination, which is not at all synonymous with being a neopagan. Or alternatively, you may be drawn to something in between, like maybe a form of esotericism which blends Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic elements.

I think one of the turning points for me, personally, was studying the origins of Judaism and Christianity. I can’t tell you what *you* will find there, but in my case, it gave me greater confidence in making a decision about them.

[arete]

Hi all.

Hello 

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

I am a former christian. Jesus said the story of the prodigal son. The son left god and god didn't punish him. In my case, I abandoned God and I returned only as pagan. Do your research and follow your heart. If you are trully scared, try to calm and follow your gut instinct.

[ehbowen]

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

I do still consider myself a fundamentalist, albeit one with a few...peculiarities.  But one of those has been the chance of experiencing, at close range, just how profound my God's love is.

The writers of Scripture were correct to describe my (our?) God as a "jealous God". But it's not the kind of jealousy that would lead a husband to batter a wife; rather, the kind of jealousy that would motivate him to seek out and hold to account the one who took advantage of her. There are reasons to fear in the spiritual realm, but ultimately He...my God...is trustworthy. In my own experience, of course.

[MadZealot]

I am torn. In the past, any “paganish” worship practices I experimented with were all done to honor the Christian Trinity. But after two years of unanswered prayers and the falling apart of my belief in the Bible, to paraphrase a comment I read somewhere (apologies for forgetting the source), I just want a good relationship with a good deity. Like I had before I began really studying the history and texts of my religion. I want to explore this path more.

Well, Christopaganism is a thing. Not a common path, but valid. You can pretty much keep your trinitarian theology and pick up some neopagan ritual.
There are two books I always recommend when this subect pops up: Christopaganism: An Inclusive Path and Jesus Through Pagan Eyes: Bridging Neopagan Perspectives with a Progressive Vision of Christ. The former is good if you want to take a stab at building and defining your own faith from-the-inside-out. The latter is great to expose yourself to other-than-the-usual-dogmatic views of Christ.

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

You may only need to seek out a more liberal denomination. Maybe UCC. And then there are more 'esoteric' versions of Christianity to poke around in. But there's also the question of how much emphasis you put on the Bible. Is it the true and inerrant word of God? Did Christ exist? Are those factual events in its pages, or is it all allegory and metaphor? Do you think the various authors intended their bits to be taken literally? Why or why not? What does 'sin' mean? 'Salvation'? There's a lot to suss out here.

[ehbowen]

You may only need to seek out a more liberal denomination. Maybe UCC. And then there are more 'esoteric' versions of Christianity to poke around in. But there's also the question of how much emphasis you put on the Bible. Is it the true and inerrant word of God? Did Christ exist? Are those factual events in its pages, or is it all allegory and metaphor? Do you think the various authors intended their bits to be taken literally? Why or why not? What does 'sin' mean? 'Salvation'? There's a lot to suss out here.

Well, as a counterpoint, it's also possible to believe that every word of Scripture is inspired and is exactly what my God wanted to say at the time it was given (and I do!) without necessarily accepting what Christian theologians say about it as accurate and, especially, up to date. I've gone 'round and 'round with my own pastor over "eternal punishment". Yes, the Scripture does imply that...but "forever" is a long, long time and a lot can happen. A lot can happen in a mere two thousand years, for that matter...when Paul and the apostle John were writing, people were still keeping books with Roman numerals. Have fun accounting for a trillion dollar debt...a mere twelve digits...with Roman numerals. These days, we compute million-digit prime numbers without a raised eyebrow. Think maybe the celestial bookkeeping practices could have changed by now?

Anyhow, I don't want to derail Beloved's thread. But just because nobody around you has the Right Answer...yet, doesn't mean that there isn't a Right Answer out there.

[Beloved]

I think one of the turning points for me, personally, was studying the origins of Judaism and Christianity. I can’t tell you what *you* will find there, but in my case, it gave me greater confidence in making a decision about them.

I have been doing this. It certainly changes things, doesn't it? Frankly, this is where some of my current anger toward Christianity comes from. I feel like I've been lied to my entire life.

[Beloved]

Well, Christopaganism is a thing. Not a common path, but valid. You can pretty much keep your trinitarian theology and pick up some neopagan ritual.
There are two books I always recommend when this subect pops up: Christopaganism: An Inclusive Path and Jesus Through Pagan Eyes: Bridging Neopagan Perspectives with a Progressive Vision of Christ. The former is good if you want to take a stab at building and defining your own faith from-the-inside-out. The latter is great to expose yourself to other-than-the-usual-dogmatic views of Christ.

You may only need to seek out a more liberal denomination. Maybe UCC. And then there are more 'esoteric' versions of Christianity to poke around in. But there's also the question of how much emphasis you put on the Bible. Is it the true and inerrant word of God? Did Christ exist? Are those factual events in its pages, or is it all allegory and metaphor? Do you think the various authors intended their bits to be taken literally? Why or why not? What does 'sin' mean? 'Salvation'? There's a lot to suss out here.

I recently read both of those books. The idea of a Christopagan faith is definitely something I have contemplated/am contemplating. I wonder a bit if it is like trying to have my cake and eat it too though.

As far as my personal answers to the questions you raised about the Bible, my answers have dramatically changed over the last couple of years. No, I no longer believe it is the true and inerrant word of God. Reading decent Bible scholarship (and the Bible itself, frankly) has led me to believe it is a very man made book. I think Christ probably did exist, as I have not (yet?) been convinced of the Christ Myth theories. I'm no longer at all certain that Christ is the "second member of the trinity" though. I grew up believing that everything in the Bible was factual, accurate and historical. I'm currently trying to figure out what is factual and what is not, but I now lean toward the majority of it being mythology/allegory. Sin and salvation I am totally unsure of at this point.

I guess I am basically going through a religious identity crisis.

[Darkhawk]

I recently read both of those books. The idea of a Christopagan faith is definitely something I have contemplated/am contemplating. I wonder a bit if it is like trying to have my cake and eat it too though.

Various forms of folk Christianity, Christian-derived magical/spiritual practice, dual faith (the Polish word for this is dwojwierny, of things I happen to know off the top of my head), and similar matters have thrived for as long as Christianity has been broadly practiced at least.

The Germanic tribes happily accepted Christian missionaries and listened to them, and when those missionaries came back they were horrified to find that the new White Christ was popped up on the shrine spaces next to the icons of Thor.  The Medieval and Renaissance periods were full of complicated and elaborate angelologies reduplicating some of the structural functionalities of polytheism.  The Victorians discussed back and forth whether the fairies were the spirits of the dead, the spirits of nature, or angels that had fallen from heaven but not so far as hell.  Folk magic threaded through with things like recitations from the Psalms are all through communities that have preserved such things.

And that's not getting into things like the African Diaspora Religions, which are part West African (and some other parts of Africa), part indigenous religion (mostly central American), and part Christian (usually Catholic; aniconic slavers produced different evolutions).  Not pagan, but pointing out that this stuff happens all the time.  My church had a visit recently from a Native American group that denies mainline church authority because they think Christian churches do Jesus wrong.  Many things are possible.

Looking into some of the traditional syncretisms, folk magics, and historical practices might be very useful for you in looking at the variety of things, especially as you're seeming to be coming from a more straitlaced tradition.

I grew up believing that everything in the Bible was factual, accurate and historical. I'm currently trying to figure out what is factual and what is not, but I now lean toward the majority of it being mythology/allegory. Sin and salvation I am totally unsure of at this point.

It's worth keeping in mind that the Biblical literalism of fundamentalism is a nineteenth-century reaction to Science Is Scary And Changes The World Too Much.  It is new, in terms of the history of Christianity, despite its unreasonable influence on some parts of particularly the US.

Also argh I need to finish writing my werewolf theology pamphlet.  (Theological interpretation and practiced based on this one guy in the 1600s Baltic states who was put on trial by the Inquisition.)

[EmberHearth]

Hi!

Longtime practitioner, first time member / poster.

Like you, I was raised in a devoutly Christian and Conservative family.  Unlike you, my family was Roman Catholic.

As others have stated, my journey into paganism (20+ years ago) started with a good, hard look at scholarship on the historical Jesus and first-century Christianity.

Some scholars I recommend for that topic include Elaine Pagel, Bart Ehrman, and Amy-Jill Levine.

For me, personally, I also have studied the interface of science and religion.  Some of those quantum physics, superstring and Kabalah-science relationships influenced my own perspective.

I have spent very little of my life "unchurched", without some form of community that I met regularly.

I was fortunate that my campus had a pagan group, with some member overlap to the SCA and tabletop role-playing game communities, that this met my needs for a while.

If you are currently active in a Christian congregation, I encourage you to maintain what connections you enjoy while you are questioning your spirituality.

A chaplain once told me that faith is a journey.  The path may twist & turn, and some things will of necessity be alone.  But humans are social animals, and we need community in some form or another.

Now, I moved around, which meant starting fresh in new communities.  If you are in a situation like that, I encourage visiting a variety of churches and religious organizations to find a community that you can grow into & serve.

If you want to find your local pagans/heathens, Witchvox.com still has listings of open groups by geographic region.

For me, coming from a more structured religious tradition, my next church was Unitarian Universalist.  They are a non-creedal religious denomination with 7 Principles and 6 spiritual Sources, and tends toward non-theistic language.

Every UU Congregation is unique.  Many are Welcoming Congregations, specifically including GLBTQ individuals and families.  Some have CUUPs groups, Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans, which may sponsor more Wiccan-esque rituals or even Sunday services.

I moved again, and struggled with the UU Congregation in my new location.  Currently I am a member of a UCC congregation.  The UCC is more overtly Christian and theistic.  They have gone to gender-neutral language, if patriarchal Christianity was a problem for you.  (My mother also practiced Biblical Patriarchy.)

My UCC congregation welcomes anyone.  Specifically, it is an Open and Affirming (ONA) congregation - which is the denomination's equivalent to UU's Welcoming Congregation.  Many members, and the minister, are aware that my personal practice is pagan.  Mostly it comes up outside of worship services.

The UU and UCC worked together to produce a comprehensive human sexuality curriculum, titled Our Whole Lives.  It has different age-appropriate versions for groups across the human lifespan.

Another denomination that we explored is the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).  The one big difference between this denomination and the UCC, is that the Disciples include Communion at every service.  UCC congregations might, but don't have to.

The UCC and Disciples of Christ work together in their global service organization.

If there's interest, I can go into more of the theology & practice of it.  Most of the relevant terms and concepts have already been mentioned, particularly by Darkhawk.

[SunflowerP]

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[EclecticWheel]

Hi all. This is my first post/first day on the forum. Apologies for what will almost certainly turn into a lengthy post.

I was practically born a Christian. My dad, along with just about every other man in my family, was a pastor. I was baptized as an infant and dedicated to the Christian God.

I was (am?) a devout Christian.

Despite being a devout Christian, I didn’t realize growing up that my natural relationship with Deity was, frankly, more pagan in flavor than it was Christian. I remember getting in trouble as a kid for drawing circles on the ground to sit and pray in. I always felt God more in nature than in the church, and felt a relational connection to plants and animals. I rejected fundamentalist ideas even as a young child in a fundamentalist church. I knew, deeply, that my God was good and kind and was different than the God often portrayed in sermons. I never believed it was a different God, only that the preachers had not really met Him!

I had very real interactions with Deity as a Christian. Most of that is too personal to go into here, but I could never deny what I experienced. Suffice it to say that God was personal, helpful, and very real in my life.

As an adult, I began studying theology and started realizing how much my personal beliefs differed from those of the Church. I tried very hard to submit to the teachings of the church, truly. When I couldn’t, I began exploring other denominations of Christianity. The word “practice” kept coming to me, that what I really needed was a spiritual practice. This was never emphasized in the fundamentalist belief-centered churches I had grown up in. So I began searching for churches that would give me some sense of spiritual practice.

I was delighted by the liturgical calendar, prayer beads, contemplative prayer, and other practices. Still, I struggled every time I tried to study and accept doctrine.

I continued to read. I imagine that you will all understand how reading can open up a giant can of worms. At this point, I can no longer intellectually assent to the Christian creeds or dogma. After much study in an attempt to strengthen my faith, I have actually lost faith in the Bible. This was devastating. I now strongly suspect that polytheism is “true.” And I find myself very drawn to practices that are considered sinful in my church. I find myself drawn to reading mythology. I’ve began a few very simple practices like smudging my home, lighting a candle or incense for meditation. These are simple, basic things that are actually frowned upon in my church. If anyone saw my bookshelf, oh my! I would probably be shunned. 

Part of all this is due to my life circumstances. I’m going through a horribly painful time and Christianity simply isn’t helping me right now. Typical Christian answers make me angry. God has seemed very absent for the last couple of years, probably because my beliefs have changed, and I feel both sad and angry about this. I find myself longing for a female deity who can relate more to the difficult circumstances I am working through. I find myself connecting more with the upcoming solstice than the advent I usually observe.

I am torn. In the past, any “paganish” worship practices I experimented with were all done to honor the Christian Trinity. But after two years of unanswered prayers and the falling apart of my belief in the Bible, to paraphrase a comment I read somewhere (apologies for forgetting the source), I just want a good relationship with a good deity. Like I had before I began really studying the history and texts of my religion. I want to explore this path more.

Yet as someone who was baptized and dedicated to the Christian God, I have concerns about exploring this path further. Ours is a jealous God. For all I know, His silence and my horrible circumstances are all punishment for my doubts and refusal to submit to church dogma. This doesn’t jive with the God I experienced for all my life until recent years, but it certainly does jive with the Bible. I’m afraid I’m not free to seek out any other deities or try out certain practices, lest I invoke the wrath of the God I committed to in the past.

Does any of this make sense? Any words of wisdom as I try to sort all of this out?

I likewise recommend Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman as accessible writers that help shed light on Christian origins and early heresies.  Elaine Pagels in particular has been helpful to me in making sense of my own experience of Christianity as she sometimes makes observations based in her own faith in some of her books and interviews.

Marcus Borg is another accessible author who influenced me when I was first discovering various liberal theologies.

I am of late delving into names of the forerunners and fathers of liberal Christian thought so that I can do some more serious theological reading, but the above authors are the ones that I've found very helpful so far.

It's hard to address a topic like the jealousy of God because we may not share the same view of God.  But I interpret the scriptures enjoining the worship of one God in a different light.  All that we do and believe is processed through the self.  The self comes first, and personal conscience.  We are all our own authorities -- even if we defer to an outside authority, we first decided that was the right thing to do.

But what is the self?  The self is brought together from elements outside of itself.  The self is interconnected with other selves, with the physical universe, enmeshed, entwined in it.  The self is a whole and a multiplicity.  To love the self very much involves loving the neighbor and the parents and the ancestors and the friends.

How else can we best love God if we do not love ourselves first?  Don't many people seek out God because he is good for us?  Don't we share love with others such as close family and friends because it is good for us and it feels good and fulfilling?

If the scriptures say, "Ye are gods," perhaps to worship God alone is to worship the Self that is both unique and interconnected with other selves.  Perhaps if we can do that we will spontaneously and naturally fulfill the "command" to love God and neighbor as ourselves.

There are hints of the existence of other gods through the Torah, the psalms, and other parts of the scriptures as well.  Usually Christian theologians like to reconcile the scriptural tensions on this topic in favor of monotheism and put less emphasis on the other scriptures as a more primitive form of thought yet to be enlightened fully by the Holy Spirit.  But one might decide to do it the other way around, instead, and argue for more esoteric interpretations of the admonitions to worship only one God and take the polytheistic elements more literally.

What I am describing comes more out of my own theology, but I mention liberal views on Christianity because generally they grant the freedom to consult various lines of thought and decide for one's self what to believe about faith and morals.

In my view, if one finds it beneficial to form a relationship with another deity, I do not consider this to be a betrayal of God so long as it is good for yourself.  When you put yourself first, you are putting God first.  And when you lose yourself, you find yourself.

Hopefully I have managed to say something helpful -- I don't know!  I wish you the best on your spiritual journey.

[Beloved]

I likewise recommend Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman as accessible writers that help shed light on Christian origins and early heresies.  Elaine Pagels in particular has been helpful to me in making sense of my own experience of Christianity as she sometimes makes observations based in her own faith in some of her books and interviews.

Marcus Borg is another accessible author who influenced me when I was first discovering various liberal theologies.

I am of late delving into names of the forerunners and fathers of liberal Christian thought so that I can do some more serious theological reading, but the above authors are the ones that I've found very helpful so far.

It's hard to address a topic like the jealousy of God because we may not share the same view of God.  But I interpret the scriptures enjoining the worship of one God in a different light.  All that we do and believe is processed through the self.  The self comes first, and personal conscience.  We are all our own authorities -- even if we defer to an outside authority, we first decided that was the right thing to do.

But what is the self?  The self is brought together from elements outside of itself.  The self is interconnected with other selves, with the physical universe, enmeshed, entwined in it.  The self is a whole and a multiplicity.  To love the self very much involves loving the neighbor and the parents and the ancestors and the friends.

How else can we best love God if we do not love ourselves first?  Don't many people seek out God because he is good for us?  Don't we share love with others such as close family and friends because it is good for us and it feels good and fulfilling?

If the scriptures say, "Ye are gods," perhaps to worship God alone is to worship the Self that is both unique and interconnected with other selves.  Perhaps if we can do that we will spontaneously and naturally fulfill the "command" to love God and neighbor as ourselves.

There are hints of the existence of other gods through the Torah, the psalms, and other parts of the scriptures as well.  Usually Christian theologians like to reconcile the scriptural tensions on this topic in favor of monotheism and put less emphasis on the other scriptures as a more primitive form of thought yet to be enlightened fully by the Holy Spirit.  But one might decide to do it the other way around, instead, and argue for more esoteric interpretations of the admonitions to worship only one God and take the polytheistic elements more literally.

What I am describing comes more out of my own theology, but I mention liberal views on Christianity because generally they grant the freedom to consult various lines of thought and decide for one's self what to believe about faith and morals.

In my view, if one finds it beneficial to form a relationship with another deity, I do not consider this to be a betrayal of God so long as it is good for yourself.  When you put yourself first, you are putting God first.  And when you lose yourself, you find yourself.

Hopefully I have managed to say something helpful -- I don't know!  I wish you the best on your spiritual journey.

Very interesting thoughts! I will need to think on those some more, but I think I understand what you are saying. It's a very different way of thinking of God than I am used to, obviously.

I'm currently reading a Bart Ehrman book actually, and Pagels is on my "to read" list, along with a million other books at this point.

And I would really like to say thank you to EVERYONE who has replied. Even if I have not directly responded, I've read every comment at least twice and have been thinking about all of them. I'm not certain where my spiritual journey is leading, but I'm really enjoying learning from this forum.