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Author Topic: Reincarnations - Start and Finish  (Read 813 times)

Geriand

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Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« on: December 27, 2013, 02:25:19 pm »
Regarding incarnations, it's seems to be generally accepted in the pagan community (though I've seen some people that don't subscribe to the theory of reincarnation) that everyone/thing reincarnates after they die.

But there are two key parts of reincarnation theory that I've not found written about or theorised:

Firstly, when or why souls/spirits come into existence. Is there a reason why souls are created? Do the gods Themselves create individual or certain souls? Do souls just come into being?

Secondly, and more curiously... is there a point when souls/spirits 'die'? Is there a point when a soul/spirit has its last incarnation, then stops being incarnated? What happens to the soul afterwards? Does it return to some primordial soup? Does it enter the service of a venerated deity?

The only theories regarding reincarnation I've been able to find are regarding Moksha and rebirth in Buddhism, but they both bring me to a situation that seems to conflict with general Pagan beliefs.

Being incarnated and reincarnation, from what I've seen, read, and heard, are generally held as being GOOD things in the Pagan community, while reincarnation and incarnation tends to be viewed in a very negative manner in Eastern religions. This opposition of a key belief seems to be... well, it's always just sort of stuck out for me. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm sort of conflicted by it. The negative view of incarnation and being/self seems to be... well, almost contradictory to general Pagan beliefs.

I have pondered doing some meditations and dowsing on these questions, but I've encountered instances before of different people getting different answers on the same question. I have faith in dowsing, but it makes me wonder how to get the most accurate answer to these questions about incarnation/reincarnation. What might be a 'yes' for one person might be a 'no' for another.

The only way I can think of to get the most accurate answers for these questions would be for a group of people to independently dowse for the answers and submit the results in private; this would prevent any subconscious influencing. How to get something like that going is a puzzle to me. The alternative would be for me to do a bunch of dowsing, then get a group to dowse (responding with a poll, perhaps?) for whether the answers I have recieved regarding reincarnation are correct or not. Less effort for others!

I would really appreciate it anyone here can shed any light on these questions, be personal opinion, previous research, general theories, or so forth!

Blessed be!
Geriand

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 07:00:41 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134188


Secondly, and more curiously... is there a point when souls/spirits 'die'? Is there a point when a soul/spirit has its last incarnation, then stops being incarnated? What happens to the soul afterwards? Does it return to some primordial soup? Does it enter the service of a venerated deity?


 
I haven't researched this in much detail as of yet, but from the small amount of reading I have done on the subject, it seems that many believe that we reincarnate until we become the best soul we can be and reach enlightenment or Nirvana. Though, what happens to the soul then is unclear to me. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can expand on this for us. :)
reLLy* ...

Emma Eldritch

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 09:31:37 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134188
Regarding incarnations, it's seems to be generally accepted in the pagan community (though I've seen some people that don't subscribe to the theory of reincarnation) that everyone/thing reincarnates after they die.

But there are two key parts of reincarnation theory that I've not found written about or theorised:

Firstly, when or why souls/spirits come into existence. Is there a reason why souls are created? Do the gods Themselves create individual or certain souls? Do souls just come into being?

Secondly, and more curiously... is there a point when souls/spirits 'die'? Is there a point when a soul/spirit has its last incarnation, then stops being incarnated? What happens to the soul afterwards? Does it return to some primordial soup? Does it enter the service of a venerated deity?

 
I certainly can't speak for anybody besides myself, but here's my take on your questions...

If, in the very beginning, there was only one mass divine force, which I'll call The Big G, then that was all there was. To know itself, it was necessary to split, so it could learn new things about itself from dialogue and interaction. So that's why we have the universe, and all the things in it. Every human being contains divinity - "every man and woman is a star" to quote Uncle Al.  We're all here to experience life, and then to eventually work our way back to the Big G. Other spirits and deities are, in theory, doing the same thing.

So, that also sort of addresses your question: yes, there's a point where the soul as an individual ceases to exist, as it goes back to this giant inhuman conglomeration. Which is something I really can't even fathom, being a puny little human who is still often distracted from deliberate and self motivated spiritual growth by things like shoes.

Again, this is just my take on various theories. It works well with my world view, but I'm certain for other people it would seem like bunk.

Quote
Being incarnated and reincarnation, from what I've seen, read, and heard, are generally held as being GOOD things in the Pagan community, while reincarnation and incarnation tends to be viewed in a very negative manner in Eastern religions. This opposition of a key belief seems to be... well, it's always just sort of stuck out for me. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm sort of conflicted by it. The negative view of incarnation and being/self seems to be... well, almost contradictory to general Pagan beliefs.


I can't say I'm shocked. Western religion has, generally, tended to prize the individual consciousness. I sometimes think that the whole positive spin on reincarnation is a small way to make us feel a little less terrified of dying. Like if we can do past life regressions we can see that yeah, we DO stick around! Alright!

Or maybe we're just not in as big a rush to hop off the wheel of life.

Quote
I have pondered doing some meditations and dowsing on these questions, but I've encountered instances before of different people getting different answers on the same question. I have faith in dowsing, but it makes me wonder how to get the most accurate answer to these questions about incarnation/reincarnation. What might be a 'yes' for one person might be a 'no' for another.

The only way I can think of to get the most accurate answers for these questions would be for a group of people to independently dowse for the answers and submit the results in private; this would prevent any subconscious influencing. How to get something like that going is a puzzle to me. The alternative would be for me to do a bunch of dowsing, then get a group to dowse (responding with a poll, perhaps?) for whether the answers I have recieved regarding reincarnation are correct or not. Less effort for others!


I think you could do a huge poll and still not get a definitive answer. This is one of those questions that we're all gonna find the answer out to someday... but probably won't fully understand while alive.

Even if you did get a consensus, I believe the vast majority of people wouldn't really care. Everyone seems to work out their own view of things, especially in paganism where emphasis tends to be on personal experience.

I am curious as to why you'd want a definitive answer on the subject - just curiosity? Validation?

Sulischild

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 09:51:36 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134188
Firstly, when or why souls/spirits come into existence. Is there a reason why souls are created? Do the gods Themselves create individual or certain souls? Do souls just come into being?


Or are the Gods themselves soul-forms of some sort very different from our own, that in turn split or budded off from... something? Turtles, all the way down.

"Paganism" isn't one thing, so much as it's an umbrella that covers a multitude of different and sometimes conflicting paths, so I don't think it's possible to find a definitive 'pagan' view of this kind of thing.  There are just too many different beliefs and theories to pick out a common thread.  

Speaking of reincarnation theories, you might find this interesting, too.  It makes my brain hurt.

Foxface

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 03:03:24 am »
Quote from: Geriand;134188

Firstly, when or why souls/spirits come into existence. Is there a reason why souls are created? Do the gods Themselves create individual or certain souls? Do souls just come into being?

Secondly, and more curiously... is there a point when souls/spirits 'die'? Is there a point when a soul/spirit has its last incarnation, then stops being incarnated? What happens to the soul afterwards? Does it return to some primordial soup? Does it enter the service of a venerated deity?

 
I can only speak to my personal beliefs and they are currently in flux. But here is what I am thinking.

1. I am afraid I cannot answer this as I am not sure spirits have a specific start point

2. I believe we reincarnate until we reach what our goal was. Upon completing said goal I believe we no longer reincarnate and ultimately become part of the whole, the universe, the creation (whatever you may choose to call it)

But I will day this is all my very subjective opinion and came from my own personal learnings and more importantly my own personal interpretation so take it for what it is, just my thoughts

Foxface

Geriand

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 09:13:50 am »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;134231

Even if you did get a consensus, I believe the vast majority of people wouldn't really care. Everyone seems to work out their own view of things, especially in paganism where emphasis tends to be on personal experience.

I am curious as to why you'd want a definitive answer on the subject - just curiosity? Validation?

 
Surely, if everyone uses a pendulum and does unbiased yes/no answers, then we'd get just a definitive and real answer as if everyone dowsed a yes/no question about something in the past?

And it's a mixture of curiosity and validation. :)

Emma Eldritch

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 02:14:22 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134287
Surely, if everyone uses a pendulum and does unbiased yes/no answers, then we'd get just a definitive and real answer as if everyone dowsed a yes/no question about something in the past?

And it's a mixture of curiosity and validation. :)

 
I think the only issue is in the 'unbiased answers' part. As much as I love a good dowser (my mom is pretty good at it) it's hard for me to put faith in dowsed answers that ultimately can't be proven until I'm, you know, dead.

Understandable.

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 02:31:53 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134188
Regarding incarnations, it's seems to be generally accepted in the pagan community (though I've seen some people that don't subscribe to the theory of reincarnation) that everyone/thing reincarnates after they die.


I don't believe in reincarnation - or really any kind of afterlife that I could understand on any level. I'm sure I'm not the only Pagan who thinks that way.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

luc798

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Re: Reincarnations - Start and Finish
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 12:02:39 pm »
Quote from: Geriand;134188
Regarding incarnations, it's seems to be generally accepted in the pagan community (though I've seen some people that don't subscribe to the theory of reincarnation) that everyone/thing reincarnates after they die.

But there are two key parts of reincarnation theory that I've not found written about or theorised:

Firstly, when or why souls/spirits come into existence. Is there a reason why souls are created? Do the gods Themselves create individual or certain souls? Do souls just come into being?

Secondly, and more curiously... is there a point when souls/spirits 'die'? Is there a point when a soul/spirit has its last incarnation, then stops being incarnated? What happens to the soul afterwards? Does it return to some primordial soup? Does it enter the service of a venerated deity?

The only theories regarding reincarnation I've been able to find are regarding Moksha and rebirth in Buddhism, but they both bring me to a situation that seems to conflict with general Pagan beliefs.

Being incarnated and reincarnation, from what I've seen, read, and heard, are generally held as being GOOD things in the Pagan community, while reincarnation and incarnation tends to be viewed in a very negative manner in Eastern religions. This opposition of a key belief seems to be... well, it's always just sort of stuck out for me. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm sort of conflicted by it. The negative view of incarnation and being/self seems to be... well, almost contradictory to general Pagan beliefs.

I have pondered doing some meditations and dowsing on these questions, but I've encountered instances before of different people getting different answers on the same question. I have faith in dowsing, but it makes me wonder how to get the most accurate answer to these questions about incarnation/reincarnation. What might be a 'yes' for one person might be a 'no' for another.

The only way I can think of to get the most accurate answers for these questions would be for a group of people to independently dowse for the answers and submit the results in private; this would prevent any subconscious influencing. How to get something like that going is a puzzle to me. The alternative would be for me to do a bunch of dowsing, then get a group to dowse (responding with a poll, perhaps?) for whether the answers I have recieved regarding reincarnation are correct or not. Less effort for others!

I would really appreciate it anyone here can shed any light on these questions, be personal opinion, previous research, general theories, or so forth!

Blessed be!
Geriand


There is a book called "Reincarnation by Papus" and it deals very nicely with this questions. But to make it shorter and less holly, he believes (and me too) that we reincarnate until we get bored of doing so and then merge with God and the All

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