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Author Topic: Question about Wiccan Belief  (Read 2865 times)

Tamina

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 12:13:26 am »
Quote from: MarieBay;27324
That's awesome, Tamina! Not to further overwhelm you or anything, but Ronald Hutton's book on the history of modern pagan witchcraft in Great Britain (The Triumph of the Moon) is a good one to check out if you're looking for some solid history and a dense read.

 
I've got information coming out of my earballs. Yeah, I said that. I meant to, too. l'm making a not of subscribing to pretty much everything I comment on, so that way I can come back through and look at stuff later.

I'm thinking of doing a New Moon Ritual in a few days, nothing big, just someting with a little candle and some silent conversation while I meditate. Thanks bunches though!

HarpFaery

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 06:46:02 am »
Quote from: ForeverLearning;27284
I believe that all gods of all pantheons exist,

 
My beliefs seem to match up to yours ForeverLearning, I like the way you've expressed it all.

Not to go off-topic, but it is somewhat related--I was reading a book on Wicca for beginners last night (I'm not a beginner, but I do need a refresher) and the author said something like "you shouldn't mix different gods / goddesses from different pantheons in your practice and rituals" and that really sounded wrong to me because in the end, my belief they all spring from the same source.

I love the Celtic deities, but also I feel a very strong affinity to Diana (Roman) / Artemis (Greek).  I think it's OK to 'mix and match' if that's what you decide to do Tamina.

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2011, 07:08:24 am »
Quote from: HarpFaery;27397

Not to go off-topic, but it is somewhat related--I was reading a book on Wicca for beginners last night (I'm not a beginner, but I do need a refresher) and the author said something like "you shouldn't mix different gods / goddesses from different pantheons in your practice and rituals" and that really sounded wrong to me because in the end, my belief they all spring from the same source.


That's a really common belief, and it has some really solid theory behind it.

Think of it this way: would you throw a party and invite, say, all your friends from work, and all your family to the same exact event? That might work out fine - but for a lot of people, it wouldn't: there'd be clashes of assumptions, how social interactions work, what's polite and not, ideas about 'what a good party' looks like. It's not that anyone's *wrong* - but not everyone may have a good time.

(Think of mixing, oh, a bunch of folks from a culture that tends to be loud and energetic with a group of folks from a culture that tends to be quiet and laid back. Or a group that thinks parties need alcohol with a group of people who prefer not to drink, or at least not heavily. Think of all the worst wedding clash stories you've ever heard, really, because that's a time we tend to see them a lot in human-being parties, because you can have groups with very different ideas in the same social space without a lot of other ties to hold them together.)

The same thing is true with pantheons: some cultures value one kind of offering, or approach. Others have different preferences. Again, neither's wrong, they're just different.

(And, just like with human-being parties, sometimes you have specific individuals who don't get along with one another, and should probably not be in the same room without a really really excellent reason.)
 
The other example I give is ... ok, if you want to do something really nice for me, that's awesome. I like people doing nice things. But if you do a nice thing for me, and you base it on what my *sister* would like, or my *brother* would like, or my *mother* would like, you're going to get some general things right (we all like books).

But chances are, you aren't going to hit the things that really make me go "oooooooh" unless you get to know me, as an individual. Even though I am very closely related to my family, and we do have a bunch of basic assumptions about 'stuff we like' in common.

And if you make a guess based on my family, not on me, it's probably going to be pretty obvious to me. I probably won't be offended if you pick a family-thing, and not a me-thing. But I'm not going to be quite as awesomely excited as if you figured out the things that I as an individual really appreciate.

My experience of the Gods is a lot like that: there's some general offerings and approaches for a given pantheon that work reasonably well. But there's almost always a couple of things that are really individual for each deity, and figuring those out can be time consuming, but very worthwhile.

I do believe that mixing pantheons is possible - but that it's not something to do lightly. Just like planning a great party, you need to think through the specifics of those individuals, not just assume it's going to  be fine. For religious practice, this usually involves building a relationship with those deities (to at least some degree) individually, before inviting them into the same space. (Though this is a smart move even if you're staying in the same pantheon: not all deities in the same pantheon get along, either.)

There are also cultures where it's easier: there's a certain amount of Greek/Roman/Egyptian syncreticism historically that makes some of those connections a bit easier to combine. (and for geographic reasons, certain kinds of offerings were common in more than one of those places). On the other hand, Roman culture and Norse have culturally had a certain amount of antagonism, historically, and combining those two is a little trickier.
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HarpFaery

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2011, 09:09:20 am »
Quote from: Jenett;27400
That's a really common belief, and it has some really solid theory behind it.

Jenett, you've given me a lot of stuff to think about here.  Thanks; I can definitely see your point and I never quite thought about it all like that before.

CinnamonBrooms

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2011, 11:24:27 am »
Quote from: Jenett;27400
That's a really common belief, and it has some really solid theory behind it.

Think of it this way: would you throw a party and invite, say, all your friends from work, and all your family to the same exact event? That might work out fine - but for a lot of people, it wouldn't: there'd be clashes of assumptions, how social interactions work, what's polite and not, ideas about 'what a good party' looks like. It's not that anyone's *wrong* - but not everyone may have a good time.

(Think of mixing, oh, a bunch of folks from a culture that tends to be loud and energetic with a group of folks from a culture that tends to be quiet and laid back. Or a group that thinks parties need alcohol with a group of people who prefer not to drink, or at least not heavily. Think of all the worst wedding clash stories you've ever heard, really, because that's a time we tend to see them a lot in human-being parties, because you can have groups with very different ideas in the same social space without a lot of other ties to hold them together.)

The same thing is true with pantheons: some cultures value one kind of offering, or approach. Others have different preferences. Again, neither's wrong, they're just different.

(And, just like with human-being parties, sometimes you have specific individuals who don't get along with one another, and should probably not be in the same room without a really really excellent reason.)
 
The other example I give is ... ok, if you want to do something really nice for me, that's awesome. I like people doing nice things. But if you do a nice thing for me, and you base it on what my *sister* would like, or my *brother* would like, or my *mother* would like, you're going to get some general things right (we all like books).

But chances are, you aren't going to hit the things that really make me go "oooooooh" unless you get to know me, as an individual. Even though I am very closely related to my family, and we do have a bunch of basic assumptions about 'stuff we like' in common.

And if you make a guess based on my family, not on me, it's probably going to be pretty obvious to me. I probably won't be offended if you pick a family-thing, and not a me-thing. But I'm not going to be quite as awesomely excited as if you figured out the things that I as an individual really appreciate.

My experience of the Gods is a lot like that: there's some general offerings and approaches for a given pantheon that work reasonably well. But there's almost always a couple of things that are really individual for each deity, and figuring those out can be time consuming, but very worthwhile.

I do believe that mixing pantheons is possible - but that it's not something to do lightly. Just like planning a great party, you need to think through the specifics of those individuals, not just assume it's going to  be fine. For religious practice, this usually involves building a relationship with those deities (to at least some degree) individually, before inviting them into the same space. (Though this is a smart move even if you're staying in the same pantheon: not all deities in the same pantheon get along, either.)

There are also cultures where it's easier: there's a certain amount of Greek/Roman/Egyptian syncreticism historically that makes some of those connections a bit easier to combine. (and for geographic reasons, certain kinds of offerings were common in more than one of those places). On the other hand, Roman culture and Norse have culturally had a certain amount of antagonism, historically, and combining those two is a little trickier.

 
Well said :)

ForeverLearning

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2011, 06:26:46 pm »
Quote from: HarpFaery;27397
My beliefs seem to match up to yours ForeverLearning, I like the way you've expressed it all.

Not to go off-topic, but it is somewhat related--I was reading a book on Wicca for beginners last night (I'm not a beginner, but I do need a refresher) and the author said something like "you shouldn't mix different gods / goddesses from different pantheons in your practice and rituals" and that really sounded wrong to me because in the end, my belief they all spring from the same source.

I love the Celtic deities, but also I feel a very strong affinity to Diana (Roman) / Artemis (Greek).  I think it's OK to 'mix and match' if that's what you decide to do Tamina.

 
Thank you :) and as for mixing different pantheons, I will mix them occasionally, but only if I know the gods are okay with it. For the most part, rather then completly avoiding to mix the pantheons, I think that it's wiser to try it out and see what reactions you get. If you get a very bad feeling just thinking of mixing two gods, then don't mix them. Of course, research helps as well, knowing which gods will interact well with others. I would never, for instance, ask a Voodoo god and a Celtic god together unless I had a feeling that they knew each other (I also happen to believe that the gods interact with other pantheons. No reason why they have to stay confined to theirs). At the same time, I tend to only call upon two gods, and both are Celtic. The third is Scandinavian, but I've never felt any animosity between the three (usually the third, Loki, just visits at his own will). In the end I suppose, just trust your gut instinct and let it the gods tell you through it if you're doing something wrong.

Refreshers can be good. I'm not a beginner either but I like reading different people's points of view on Wicca.
My occupation? I don\'t really have one--but in my spare time I look through my telescope searching for that curious man in the flying blue box.

Tamina

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Re: Questin about Wiccan Belief.
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2011, 09:25:04 pm »
Quote from: ForeverLearning;27494
Refreshers can be good. I'm not a beginner either but I like reading different people's points of view on Wicca.

 
Thanks guys. Everyone is helping so much. I'm getting a bettr grip on what I"m doing even now.

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