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Author Topic: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid  (Read 12539 times)

Aiwelin

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #150 on: December 11, 2013, 01:54:07 pm »
Quote from: Jack;132247
There was an episode of Sleepy Hollow (which I generally enjoy) where they pulled out a box inscribed with runes and referred to the ancient language of the druids and I was like Y U DO THIS?!?

 
That hurts my brain.
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MadZealot

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #151 on: December 11, 2013, 02:13:21 pm »
Quote from: Jack;132247
There was an episode of Sleepy Hollow (which I generally enjoy) where they pulled out a box inscribed with runes and referred to the ancient language of the druids and I was like Y U DO THIS?!?


Gaaah.  Hollywood.  

I remember that shot, and I'm willing to let it slide, because it's a pretty food show.
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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2013, 02:24:30 pm »
Quote from: Aiwelin;132256
That hurts my brain.

 


Crane: Egyptian hieroglyphs!

Me: What! No! That's not even a little! *froths at the mouth*
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Jack

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #153 on: December 11, 2013, 02:25:01 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;132260
I remember that shot, and I'm willing to let it slide, because it's a pretty food show.

 
And here I thought the pretty food show was Hannibal. /rimshot
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Yei

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #154 on: December 11, 2013, 05:04:53 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;132139
I've never even heard of any supposed connections between Ancient Egypt and Mesoamerica besides the pyramid thing. Is this one of those "Chariots of the Gods" type things? I'm actually curious in a train-wreck-watching kind of way.

 
Exactly, the resemblance is based entirely on a vague similarity in geometric shapes and little else.

The problem is that most people know very little about Indigenous American civilisations, especially those in Mesoamerica and the Andes, so it is incredibly easy for misinformation about them to be spread around. Shows like Ancient Aliens take advantage of this constantly.

The Toltecs get this especially bad. Hint: If a book offers you Toltec wisdom, don't believe it!

Oíche

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #155 on: December 11, 2013, 09:18:53 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;132082
Name of the language, sorry can't do. Yes I know what it's called. It translates as Secret Tongue. As said, a small portion of it was published in a book and later a movie. Translations from that have come close but not all the way.

Yes as understood, the docs were copies of older ones.

 
Hi, Celtic Studies major here. I'd like academic or archaeological sources for this please- manuscript, inscription, etc.
Being quite honest (and considering this is my line of study), I highly doubt it's authentic.
'Secret Tongue' reminds me of the 'Ever-New Tongue' in medieval Irish tradition. Probably not related but it struck me while reading. (It's not a secret language, it's a story about an individual's tongue speaking).
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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #156 on: December 11, 2013, 09:46:45 pm »
Quote from: Cág;132314
Hi, Celtic Studies major here. I'd like academic or archaeological sources for this please- manuscript, inscription, etc.
Being quite honest (and considering this is my line of study), I highly doubt it's authentic.
'Secret Tongue' reminds me of the 'Ever-New Tongue' in medieval Irish tradition. Probably not related but it struck me while reading. (It's not a secret language, it's a story about an individual's tongue speaking).

 
This appears to be the subject at hand--Shelta--the linked reference has all the elements here including claims of a secret Druid language, an unverified thousand-year-old book, and vague connections to stregheria.  I can't vouch for the journal it's published in, I just found it on a cursory search, but this doesn't involve anyone breaking any oaths.  Now, as to what popular movie it's in, I can't say.
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Valentine

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #157 on: December 11, 2013, 09:49:35 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;132317
This appears to be the subject at hand--Shelta--the linked reference has all the elements here including claims of a secret Druid language, an unverified thousand-year-old book, and vague connections to stregheria.  I can't vouch for the journal it's published in, I just found it on a cursory search, but this doesn't involve anyone breaking any oaths.  Now, as to what popular movie it's in, I can't say.

 
Here's another set of information, linking again to Leland.  http://www.answers.com/topic/shelta-thari  It..honestly doesn't seem that secret.
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stephyjh

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #158 on: December 11, 2013, 10:34:10 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;132317
This appears to be the subject at hand--Shelta--the linked reference has all the elements here including claims of a secret Druid language, an unverified thousand-year-old book, and vague connections to stregheria.  I can't vouch for the journal it's published in, I just found it on a cursory search, but this doesn't involve anyone breaking any oaths.  Now, as to what popular movie it's in, I can't say.

If that is the one, further digging gave me this.  Doesn't give me full text, but it does give references to McAlister's theory that it was most likely constructed from modern Irish and English. Wish I could find a longer preview, but everything else is behind a paywall.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:34:46 pm by stephyjh »
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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #159 on: December 12, 2013, 06:31:04 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;132317
This appears to be the subject at hand--Shelta--the linked reference has all the elements here including claims of a secret Druid language, an unverified thousand-year-old book, and vague connections to stregheria.  I can't vouch for the journal it's published in, I just found it on a cursory search, but this doesn't involve anyone breaking any oaths.  Now, as to what popular movie it's in, I can't say.

 
Quote from: Valentine;132318
Here's another set of information, linking again to Leland.  http://www.answers.com/topic/shelta-thari  It..honestly doesn't seem that secret.

 
Quote from: stephyjh;132323
If that is the one, further digging gave me this.  Doesn't give me full text, but it does give references to McAlister's theory that it was most likely constructed from modern Irish and English. Wish I could find a longer preview, but everything else is behind a paywall.

 
Now that's interesting! I doubt it's an ancient thing though, it reminds me a little of the more modern local (extinct) languages in Ireland of Fingallian and Yola. Likely it's a Germanic thing, not a Celtic language- it certainly bares no resemblance to Old Irish from what I can see or Old Welsh :)
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Varian

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #160 on: December 12, 2013, 09:07:33 pm »
Quote from: Jack;132267


Crane: Egyptian hieroglyphs!

Me: What! No! That's not even a little! *froths at the mouth*

 
How can those be mistaken for hieroglyphs...?

Olivia

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #161 on: December 12, 2013, 09:13:51 pm »
Quote from: Briar Rose;132422
How can those be mistaken for hieroglyphs...?

 
I think it would be easy to confuse those with hieroglyphs... If you're blind or some how managed to go through life without taking a high school world history class...

Jack

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #162 on: December 12, 2013, 09:25:14 pm »
Quote from: Briar Rose;132422
How can those be mistaken for hieroglyphs...?

 
The only way it makes sense, IMO, is if these are things that Crane was told by the secret society in 177whatever and he believed them, not having watched Prince of Egypt or whatever back then.

That really doesn't excuse anyone else around him, though.
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Jabberwocky

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Re: Popular inaccuracies new (and less new) pagans should avoid
« Reply #163 on: December 13, 2013, 05:48:52 am »
Quote from: Jack;132190

(I know that's a problematic opinion in other contexts especially with still-living cultures but the idea that there are SURVIVING RECORDS WRITTEN BY ACTUAL DRUIDS that are being kept in some guy's attic or something makes me feel sort of ill. I'm much happier believing your trad is exaggerating because the alternative is much, much sadder.)

 
While I know of no examples from antiquity, that has happened with traditions.

They're a lot more recent (founded in the 17th Century), but that's basically what happened with the Muggletonians.  When the last Muggletonian died in 1979, it turned out he'd had the entire archive in his attic since the Second World War.  It's just fortunate that he decided to leave them to the British Library in his will.

Without that, it's entirely possible they'd have just been thrown out by someone who didn't recognise their significance.  The death of a tradition is sad enough, without losing major records of their existence on top of that.  So yeah, I agree, if anybody has records of a tradition, keeping them locked up is just tragic.

Interestingly, among those of us with an interest in the Muggletonians (small group though we are!) it's widely believed that there's another archive that may still be in someone's attic somewhere.  But the last reference we have to it is from 1936 and we still haven't managed to track it down.
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