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Author Topic: Pagan things which hurt nature  (Read 4939 times)

yewberry

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 11:33:45 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125499
This was the site that greeted me recently at a well known site in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Not surprising as the (pagan owned) shop on site was selling the polyester ribbons for 50p for a thin one and £1 for a thick one....

 
That's pretty WHARRGARBL-inducing, fer sure.

Brina

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Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2013, 02:42:56 am »
Quote from: Vale;125524
I'm afraid so - every tree in the sacred glen was similarly festooned although perhaps  not quite as heavily!

Every flat surface was covered with "offerings"



and trees with coins hammered into them



Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

You'd need a couple of dumpsters to clean the place up.

And yet in some places this has been done at sacred wells etc for centuries. You should see my photos of St Gobnait's well in Ireland - every surface covered in votive offerings, pictures of sick people, and so on. It didn't detract from my experience. The well was in a natural setting, but it was made with human hands. I'd like to know if your Cornish site has a tradition of this sort, and whether people look after and clean up the site at any point.

The problem is that if we separate 'civilisation' from 'nature' and treat them differently, instead of acknowledging that humans are part of their environment, we start causing even more problems with that attitude (in my opinion). Am I wrong to 'wildcraft' herbs in the woods, in the same way that animals use wild plants for food? Am I killing things even by going somewhere? It gets weird.
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Vale

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2013, 03:15:43 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;125584
And yet in some places this has been done at sacred wells etc for centuries. You should see my photos of St Gobnait's well in Ireland - every surface covered in votive offerings, pictures of sick people, and so on. It didn't detract from my experience. The well was in a natural setting, but it was made with human hands. I'd like to know if your Cornish site has a tradition of this sort, and whether people look after and clean up the site at any point.


IIRC the origins of this is that pieces of cotton fabric belonging to the sick person were dipped in the holy well and then tied to the tree. As they rotted away so the illness left the petitioner. I see this as very different from tying o bits of polyester ribbon which doesn't rot easily. Especially when it's just been sold to them to make a wish. There were a few items left that had obviously been made with care and even a few proper clouties.

I doubt that the site is cleared. Some of the ribbons were faded and looked like there have been there years. The irony is that the current owner advertises the place for its "natural beauty" and it is actually a SSSI. It looks completely different in the tourist brochures.

Quote from: Naomi J;125584
The problem is that if we separate 'civilisation' from 'nature' and treat them differently, instead of acknowledging that humans are part of their environment, we start causing even more problems with that attitude (in my opinion). Am I wrong to 'wildcraft' herbs in the woods, in the same way that animals use wild plants for food? Am I killing things even by going somewhere? It gets weird.


I wildcraft but I'm sensitive to the fact that I have other sources for my food and the local wildlife population doesn't. I make sure that the plant/berry is plentiful and I only take a little from any one place and then only what I need.

Khaln

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2013, 03:40:36 am »
Quote from: Vale;125586
IIRC the origins of this is that pieces of cotton fabric belonging to the sick person were dipped in the holy well and then tied to the tree. As they rotted away so the illness left the petitioner. I see this as very different from tying o bits of polyester ribbon which doesn't rot easily. Especially when it's just been sold to them to make a wish. There were a few items left that had obviously been made with care and even a few proper clouties.

I doubt that the site is cleared. Some of the ribbons were faded and looked like there have been there years. The irony is that the current owner advertises the place for its "natural beauty" and it is actually a SSSI. It looks completely different in the tourist brochures.

I wildcraft but I'm sensitive to the fact that I have other sources for my food and the local wildlife population doesn't. I make sure that the plant/berry is plentiful and I only take a little from any one place and then only what I need.

 
I feel like an offering is something that should have a lot of time and energy invested in it and will decay or corrode quickly. I feel that if it hasn't disintegrated then it really hasn't been given away at all.

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Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2013, 05:03:10 am »
Quote from: Vale;125586
IIRC the origins of this is that pieces of cotton fabric belonging to the sick person were dipped in the holy well and then tied to the tree. As they rotted away so the illness left the petitioner. I see this as very different from tying o bits of polyester ribbon which doesn't rot easily. Especially when it's just been sold to them to make a wish. There were a few items left that had obviously been made with care and even a few proper clouties.

I doubt that the site is cleared. Some of the ribbons were faded and looked like there have been there years. The irony is that the current owner advertises the place for its "natural beauty" and it is actually a SSSI. It looks completely different in the tourist brochures.

I wildcraft but I'm sensitive to the fact that I have other sources for my food and the local wildlife population doesn't. I make sure that the plant/berry is plentiful and I only take a little from any one place and then only what I need.

Oh, I agree about what fabric you tie to trees, etc. I used to leave ribbons on trees without thinking about about it, as I said above, and now I'm trying to be more careful about what I leave where. I'm environmentally conscious about my wildcrafting too. It's just interesting, the dichotomies between 'human' and 'natural' that I see with some Pagans. But, yes, that place sounds terrible, and so does your picture of the tree.
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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2013, 02:12:09 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125524
I'm afraid so - every tree in the sacred glen was similarly festooned although perhaps  not quite as heavily!

Every flat surface was covered with "offerings"

and trees with coins hammered into them



Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

You'd need a couple of dumpsters to clean the place up.

I set my eyes on this picture and nearly burst into tears. I have a VERY hard time believing the Goddess or the Oaken King accepts this as "offering". The fact that you've seen this in still living trees... my very soul cries out! I will be the first to say, I am not really a gungho save the environment person, but I do believe in respect.

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2013, 06:26:33 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;125451
I actually make little baskety things with my niece and nephews for nesting birds that contain cotton yarn scraps and newsprint.  Every year, the birds empty them.



 
That is such a sweet idea! I should try this with my campers.

Nekomata

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2013, 04:59:35 am »
Quote from: Vale;125524
I'm afraid so - every tree in the sacred glen was similarly festooned although perhaps  not quite as heavily!

Every flat surface was covered with "offerings"



and trees with coins hammered into them



Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

You'd need a couple of dumpsters to clean the place up.

 
I do general upkeep, join a community clean up or even grabbing the trash in the parking lots at my work or when I notice it, I try to keep the physical resourcs I use to a minimum so I can't really say about ribbons and such- but my stomach literally twisted at that coin picture.
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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2013, 10:38:37 pm »
Quote from: Nekomata;129292
... but my stomach literally twisted at that coin picture.

 
Yeah, mine too. And it happens again every time someone doesn't trim the pic out of their quote. (Not a poke at you specifically, Neko, but aimed generally.)

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2013, 05:58:13 am »
Quote from: Unmutual;125052
I see so many ritual practices which are actively harmful to the natural world.

I cringe whenever a book recommends I bury used ritual salt, spread it across windows or doors, or use it to create spirals in outdoor rituals. Putting salt into the environment kills plants - it was used as a punishment during ancient wars because it would wreck the earth for generation.

Another one is ribbons hung on trees for Beltane - I'm still removing ones I find in my local wood. Unnatural dies and materials harm both trees and local wildlife.

I'm aware there are environmental issues around the production of crystals too, though I don't know much about it.

Those are my two bugbears. Can anyone else think of more?

 
Totally with you on the salt thing!
I grow a lot of my own fruit, veg and herbs and would never fee; comfortable about killing earth by regularly dumping salt on it!

Perhaps if you have the space, a designated spot could be used, but casual throwing around of salt and making shapes/spirals seems thoughtless to me.

Near me there used to be a pre-history center with a lot of their days focused around pagan festivals and things. They had a tree you could tie ribbon to, BUT.. not only was this ribbon un-dyed, natural cotton, but they used to remove it all at the end of each week.

Pteranotropi

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2013, 03:34:59 pm »
Quote from: Tana;125065
Discarding 'used' semi-precious stones. 'Giving them back to the earth' or such a crap. Yeah, that is so awesome, esp. after you consider, that they've been ripped from the earth in ways that are harm- and hurtful to the environment and the poor people who dig them out. (Not to mention the part where you might finance some warlords by buying those stones and so on...)

Long story short: if you have gem stones, treasure them. They are way older than the human species, they can handle some of your 'negative' energy.

That's only topped by using said gem stones in earth healing rituals and burying them to send out healing vibes... yeah. Ok.

 

Yeah, the whole discarding gemstones thing is weird. Because if the gems are oh so radiant and pure that you can bury them to act as goodness spreaders, the fact that they lose their power/get corrupted is just nonsensical.

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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2013, 04:37:44 pm »
Quote from: Unmutual;125052
I see so many ritual practices which are actively harmful to the natural world.

 
I heard of one ritual where they released butterflies...indoors...in winter. As far as I heard they didn't have a method of safely capturing and housing them till spring. I hope I'm wrong about that.
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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2013, 05:28:49 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125499
I share your dislike of ribbons.



This was the site that greeted me recently at a well known site in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Not surprising as the (pagan owned) shop on site was selling the polyester ribbons for 50p for a thin one and £1 for a thick one....

Don't start me on the environmental and humanitarian cost of crystals either....


Ouch! This is horrific.

Thanks to all of you who posted on this thread - you've inspired me putting some energy to getting out the word about stuff like this.
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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2013, 02:50:11 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;130778
I heard of one ritual where they released butterflies...indoors...in winter. As far as I heard they didn't have a method of safely capturing and housing them till spring. I hope I'm wrong about that.

 
...wut?! That is so bonkers.
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Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2013, 07:36:30 am »
Quote from: Unmutual;131200
...wut?! That is so bonkers.


Yeah. I wasn't there for it but I heard LOADS about it afterward.

After that, the local pagan group got very picky about having a copy of any ritual that a group was doing for one of the public Sabbats, and approving it before they'd let the group do the ritual.

(Well my group was partly to blame for that too. We did a Samhain where I was disrobed as part of the Descent of Persephone - however I was never naked, I was wearing a bodystocking that we'd covered with stars.)

But yeah, when I heard about the poor butterflies I was very shocked and saddened.
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