collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 17 September 2020: $535 donated. Only $175 more need! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Pagan things which hurt nature  (Read 5372 times)

Sophia C

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 2000
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 44
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Pagan and Christian heretic. Anglican, Druid, Gaelic-ish polytheist, some other influences
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2013, 04:23:35 pm »
Quote from: Tana;125217
Arsenic is natural too. :whis:

Humans have a strange way to discern 'natural' and 'not natural'. Animals just discern between 'helps to survive' and 'helps not to survive'. I've seen bird nests, where there was plastic wrap built into it, racoons sure don't mind un-natural garbage tons and so on.

What is a no-go imo, is leaving trash out in the nature. Pagan or not, ritual or not. The other day I was on a walk and ended up collecting soda cans. Because some people are just assholes and can't be bothered with taking their trash home again.

That's why, if I'm going to leave anything behind, I want it to be quickly biodegradable. Undyed cotton lightly tied to trees, that birds can use in nests, is one thing. Plastic rings from coke can packs, that they strangle themselves on - never good.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

yewberry

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1775
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 12:31:01 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;125215
Yup. Coconuts are natural, and if I eat one, I'll die.


Now I need to post the Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron vid:

[video=youtube;2z-OLG0KyR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4[/video]

So if you're allergic to bananas, God hates you (apparently).

Brina

yewberry

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1775
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 12:35:28 am »
Quote from: Unmutual;125052
Putting salt into the environment kills plants

Yeah, not necessarily.  If you don't use a lot of it in my climate (especially at the right time of year), the effects of salt are so negligible as to be nearly nil.  Quantity also matters.

I'm a lot more concerned with polluting things people do every day than occasional ritual stuff.

Brina
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 12:35:53 am by yewberry »

Khaln

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 9
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 04:55:29 am »
Quote from: yewberry;125251
Yeah, not necessarily.  If you don't use a lot of it in my climate (especially at the right time of year), the effects of salt are so negligible as to be nearly nil.  Quantity also matters.

I'm a lot more concerned with polluting things people do every day than occasional ritual stuff.

Brina

 

Maybe salt would be a problem in more sensitive area's but I'm pretty sure around here it'd be prohibitively expensive to try and kill plants with salt. I mean i could probably put a dent in a square foot of grass but its douglas fir and western hemlock forests all over here, i'd need salt in 50 pound sacks.

I agree ritual stuff probably doesn't do much harm. If you tie something around a tree just make sure it rots and snaps before the tree can grow through it, girdling the tree. Maybe learn how to drop prune if you're collecting wood.

If you have a rock, do whatever you like with it, whatever went into producing it is a sunken cost that can not be recovered regardless of whether you bury it, throw it in the sea or wrap it in a napkin and leave it at a nice restaurant.

Just don't be the guy who leaves a cart full of old unlabeled paint cans and paint thinners and other miscellaneous chemicals in some random parking lot. Or the guy who dumps tires and other trash in some spot alongside the road. Or the guy who throws styrofoam in the burnables pile. Those guys suck.

yewberry

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1775
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 09:44:17 am »
Quote from: Khaln;125393
Maybe salt would be a problem in more sensitive area's but I'm pretty sure around here it'd be prohibitively expensive to try and kill plants with salt. I mean i could probably put a dent in a square foot of grass but its douglas fir and western hemlock forests all over here, i'd need salt in 50 pound sacks.

Well, howdy, neighbor.  And yeah, totally.

Quote
I agree ritual stuff probably doesn't do much harm. If you tie something around a tree just make sure it rots and snaps before the tree can grow through it, girdling the tree. Maybe learn how to drop prune if you're collecting wood.

I definitely consider random plastic crap (ritual or otherwise) to be littering, whether you drop it on the ground or tie it to a tree.  Stupid people do stupid things, and pagans, in my experience, are every bit as capable of stupidity as anyone else.

Quote
Just don't be the guy who leaves a cart full of old unlabeled paint cans and paint thinners and other miscellaneous chemicals in some random parking lot.

Or in the ditch in front of my house.  Because if magic works even a tiny little bit, your balls will soon shrivel up and drop off.

Brina
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:45:13 am by yewberry »

veggiewolf

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 3105
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 11:56:43 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;125195
Except for the ones used as nesting materials by local birds.


I actually make little baskety things with my niece and nephews for nesting birds that contain cotton yarn scraps and newsprint.  Every year, the birds empty them.

Quote
The use of the word "unnatural" when people really mean "synthetic" bugs me, because WORDS MEAN THINGS.

 
Thank you!
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

Materialist

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 605
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2013, 03:51:09 pm »
Quote from: Unmutual;125052

  Those are my two bugbears. Can anyone else think of more?


Historically, in the Roman era, votive objects made of metal were popular. At the sacred spring of Bath, in England, pots and pans, pins, busted jewelry, lead tablets-it all went in to the water people were drinking and bathing in. Let's hope the practice is never revived.

PetitAlbert

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 101
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 04:02:16 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;125195
Except for the ones used as nesting materials by local birds. The use of the word "unnatural" when people really mean "synthetic" bugs me, because WORDS MEAN THINGS.


I accept your criticism, you're right. Still - random ribbons are unnatural in the forest environment.
 
(My rant was particularly directed against the witches in my local forest, who tied plastic shiny ribbons to the trees. I )

Quote from: Tana;125065
Discarding 'used' semi-precious stones. 'Giving them back to the earth' or such a crap. Yeah, that is so awesome, esp. after you consider, that they've been ripped from the earth in ways that are harm- and hurtful to the environment and the poor people who dig them out. (Not to mention the part where you might finance some warlords by buying those stones and so on...)


Thank you for this! I knew there was an issue around semi-precious stones, but never heard the full story. Valuable thoughts, cheers.
 
Quote from: Aiwelin;125118
Hmm, this is something I've done on occasion, though I use undyed cotton that I spice up with my own vegetable dyes.  Is it the unnatural materials that harm or the leaving of anything which is unhealthy?


Short answer - I don't know enough about those materials to speak authoritively.  

Longer answer - in my opinion, leaving anything in the forest environment which didn't originate there isn't good. It's simply not necessary.

I don't think we can justify it because it's a small amount/only once a year/for magical purposes - it just adds to the process of littering that spoils natural spaces. For any other human passing by, your ribbon is just a damp and grubby rag, the same as any other tin can or cigarette end - it may even encourage others to litter, because it makes the environment look messy. From a flora/fauna point of view - it's something that shouldn't be there, and introduces a potential harm. Nature can adapt to new materials - it's very good at it - but it's best to avoid the need. There are so many things threatening our green spaces, I prefer entirely avoiding adding to it.

My recommendation would be taking down the ribbons when you leave, or creating decorations Andy Goldsworthy style from things in the area.
"We all have something to learn, and something to teach."
30 Days of Magic: take the challenge now!

Petit Albert: This witch\'s blog
Book of Protective Magic by Albert - free 20 page bookzine download

Vale

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 333
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 04:58:44 pm »
Quote from: Unmutual;125052
I see so many ritual practices which are actively harmful to the natural world.

Another one is ribbons hung on trees for Beltane - I'm still removing ones I find in my local wood. Unnatural dies and materials harm both trees and local wildlife.

I'm aware there are environmental issues around the production of crystals too, though I don't know much about it.

Those are my two bugbears. Can anyone else think of more?


I share your dislike of ribbons.



This was the site that greeted me recently at a well known site in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Not surprising as the (pagan owned) shop on site was selling the polyester ribbons for 50p for a thin one and £1 for a thick one....

Don't start me on the environmental and humanitarian cost of crystals either....

Wildfire

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 34
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 05:33:03 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125499
I share your dislike of ribbons.



This was the site that greeted me recently at a well known site in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Not surprising as the (pagan owned) shop on site was selling the polyester ribbons for 50p for a thin one and £1 for a thick one....

 
...is that a tree branch?
"If God, then world."
"Wait, then where did God come from?"
"That\'s not really part of the original hypothesis."

Allaya

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Location: Out of My Mind
  • Posts: 876
  • Country: no
  • Total likes: 33
    • View Profile
  • Religion: It's Complicated
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2013, 05:41:19 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125499
I share your dislike of ribbons.

This was the site that greeted me recently at a well known site in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Not surprising as the (pagan owned) shop on site was selling the polyester ribbons for 50p for a thin one and £1 for a thick one....

Don't start me on the environmental and humanitarian cost of crystals either....

 
Holy crap!!  

See, this is why I like having my pocket knife with me...it makes rescuing trees easier. Granted, the most I usually have to contend with is an errant plastic bag or strip of forgotton barrier tape.

I really want one of those stabby sticks for litter collection, but it seems I'll have to make one myself.
Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.  — Shirley Chisholm
No doubt the truth can be unpleasant, but I am not sure that unpleasantness is the same as the truth.  — Roger Ebert
It is difficult to get a person to understand something when their livelihood depends upon them not understanding it. — Upton Sinclair (adapted)
People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

Vale

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 333
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2013, 06:58:59 pm »
Quote from: Wildfire;125512
...is that a tree branch?

I'm afraid so - every tree in the sacred glen was similarly festooned although perhaps  not quite as heavily!

Every flat surface was covered with "offerings"



and trees with coins hammered into them



Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

You'd need a couple of dumpsters to clean the place up.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 06:59:47 pm by Vale »

Wildfire

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 34
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2013, 07:10:08 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125524


Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

 
I don't know if it's really my place to say this, since, upon even a cursory Google search, it does seem to be a practice that goes back a ways, but isn't that kind of... violent?
"If God, then world."
"Wait, then where did God come from?"
"That\'s not really part of the original hypothesis."

veggiewolf

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 3105
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2013, 07:28:18 pm »
Quote from: Vale;125524
...
and trees with coins hammered into them



Mercifully these were fallen logs but I've seen this done to still living trees.

You'd need a couple of dumpsters to clean the place up.

ARGH.

*climbs on soapbox*

This pisses me off as much as throwing coins into streams.  Putting a coin into a tree (or stream) may be traditional, but giving that coin to a charity for reforestation or clean water has a bigger and better impact!

*steps off soapbox*
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

Medulla

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 92
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pagan things which hurt nature
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2013, 07:30:07 pm »
I agree with most things in this thread. I don't do a lot of things outdoors because it's difficult where I live and also because it's not completely essential for most of what I do. But I think it's only a matter of politeness to respect the space you're using. You wouldn't trash a house you didn't own or put thumbtacks on the living room couch you shared with flatmates. Going outdoors for rituals should be handled similarly, and even more so if respect for nature is part of your belief system. It's not so difficult to observe basic rules and to think of the consequences and origin of the things you use.

Quote from: Allaya;125513

See, this is why I like having my pocket knife with me...it makes rescuing trees easier. Granted, the most I usually have to contend with is an errant plastic bag or strip of forgotton barrier tape.

 
I never thought about this but now I want to carry a pocket knife too, just in case a tree needs rescuing.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
15 Replies
6187 Views
Last post September 15, 2011, 11:35:19 pm
by Asch
4 Replies
2152 Views
Last post December 19, 2014, 01:15:48 am
by brett
3 Replies
2401 Views
Last post November 26, 2015, 09:04:47 am
by sailor
10 Replies
2374 Views
Last post October 20, 2016, 12:24:00 pm
by milkeyedmender
6 Replies
1005 Views
Last post February 14, 2019, 12:43:18 pm
by Hariti

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 63
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 2
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall