On the dangers of ritual magic.

[Isilwen]

On another thread I talked about my concerns about the magic used in rituals, saying that it was the only thing that really stopped me from joining the Wiccan path because I felt uneasy about it because of my fear of working with energy and the probability of attracting things.

The fears come from another Spanish forum (which isn't really active anymore) where I read that obviously you have to be careful (it was nothing dramatic, nor exagerated). Some of the things mentioned were that maybe in the first rituals because of the new amount of concentrated energy focused in a spot it could attract (because of curiosity) some kind of not that good beings.
Also other things mentioned were that you could feel your heart racing (not in a good way, and probably because that person was working with more than he could at that time), a lot of heat that could make you dizzy, or even pass out.

I know most of the things I just said probably aren't the usual, and happen rarely but I'm a really nervous person and I never liked to feel strange sensations through my body because they make me feel anxious.

Opened this thread because Jenett, very kindly, offered to expand a bit more on the topic. Feel free to change the title, didn't really know how to name it.

Thank you, really appreciate your help.

[Khep]

On another thread I talked about my concerns about the magic used in rituals, saying that it was the only thing that really stopped me from joining the Wiccan path because I felt uneasy about it because of my fear of working with energy and the probability of attracting things.

Hello, Isilwen.   I'm pretty new to using pagan religious ritual myself.  I was thinking of what I might possibly say that could be helpfull to you, and felt it might be good to try and give what I see as a "broad" definition of magic -- even suggesting ways that we all use "magic" in some ways most people wouldn't think of as 'magic ritual'.

Then I started reading the article by Jenett that she mentions in the other thread - "The question of magic".
http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics/the-question-of-magic/

And it looks like Jenett's essay deals with this idea very well -- for example:

There’s also one essential point: I think we need to be choosing to do these things with intention, and with an intention of affecting more than the direct physical world in some way. Cooking a meal isn’t necessarily magic, but making a soup designed to help focus healing energy for someone who’s sick is. Sending out a resume for a job isn’t automatically magic, but meditation and reflection to make that application the best possible (not just the usual editing) might be. Listening to music isn’t always an act of magic – but picking a particular playlist to help focus your intention toward a goal can be a great magical act.

So . . . I will read the rest of it now.  I'll just add that you might look into techniques to find greater calm and deal with fear -- such as meditation, "centering," and "grounding."

[Jenett]

Hi! Thanks for expanding a little more on your fears - I think this will be an interesting thing to discuss for a bunch of people.)

(Also, before I get started: please do tell me if I use a phrase or explain something that doesn't make sense to you: some of this is an area where different places use different ways of describing what's going on.)

Some of the things mentioned were that maybe in the first rituals because of the new amount of concentrated energy focused in a spot it could attract (because of curiosity) some kind of not that good beings.

Also other things mentioned were that you could feel your heart racing (not in a good way, and probably because that person was working with more than he could at that time), a lot of heat that could make you dizzy, or even pass out.

I know most of the things I just said probably aren't the usual, and happen rarely but I'm a really nervous person and I never liked to feel strange sensations through my body because they make me feel anxious.

(This is going to be a bit long, but I hope it helps!)

So, there's sort of four different things here:

1) Potential risks of attracting not-good entities
2) Potential risks of affecting your energy in ways that might not be good.
3) Potential risks of sensations or experiences you find uncomfortable or scary.
4) Other risks worth noting, like physical safety, using tools, etc.

I'll start by saying that over the years, I've seen a lot more people get themselves in trouble by not being careful about environmental factors (like being outside too long in heat or cold without appropriate precautions), using herbs without research (salves or incense), or not taking precautions about candles, breakable objects, or other physical safety things than I have the first three categories.

(A lot of what I'm going to talk about here is covered in  various links from the Practices page on my website and also the Building a Practice page, in somewhat more detail.)

The best way to avoid the first three kinds of problems is to go slowly, and take on a new skill only once you have previous ones, and build them in a way that means you know how to resolve a potential problem before you do things that might cause a problem.

(In a slightly different application, this is known as the 'don't summon something you don't know how to banish' principle.)

So, let's start with #2, because that's probably the first thing to try.

Things that might affect your energy:
It is possible to do a ritual thing where you end up overloaded with too much energy (or sometimes, where you end up using so much energy you're drained and need time to recover.) This can definitely be uncomfortable!

But if you think of it like drinking too much caffeine or having too much sugar (so you're jittery and uncomfortable) or like doing too much while exercising or doing things you don't normally do, you can probably see there are ways to both avoid it, and that rest and a little patience go a long way to fixing it.

(I also tend to think that a *little* discomfort is a way we often learn and grow a lot. Not that we should do things way out of our comfort zone that scare us, but that trying a thing that makes us feel a little uneasy for a few minutes, when we can stop any time, usually will mean we learn more than if we stop the first time we feel something weird.)
 
Some ways to avoid the problem:
- Keep a journal.

It doesn't need to be a big deal - just running notes of what you've been doing and what it's making you feel or what's working and what isn't. This can help you track down patterns.

(Our bodies or the environment can affect how we feel, so knowing that my concentration goes to pieces about 2 days before a major storm front moves in helps me not blame myself when it happens. People who menstruate often notice some patterns in their energy that go with that cycle. Some people notice patterns with foods, or amount or quality of sleep.)

If you know that you have times things are easier or harder, or fine or scarier, you're in a great place to track down what's going on and figure out better options for yourself.

- Build habits of self-awareness.

A lot of magical practice around energy involves being aware of what you're feeling and why. I was trained to take a moment or two to see how I felt before doing any ritual work or practice exercises.

How did I feel physically? Did I feel sick or have a headache or stiffness somewhere? Did I feel tired? Or did I feel good? How did I feel emotionally? Was I happy? Sad? Stressed? How did I feel energetically - did I feel like I could do lots of things, or was I tired and run down?

Then I'd do whatever I was doing, and check in with myself again after I was done. Often, I'd feel different (and often better!) or I might be more tired but less stressed, or something else. I'd write this down, and over time I saw some useful patterns (and also, it was a lot easier to remind myself to do some practices regularly when I saw how much they helped.)

- Begin with very simple exercises, and build on them over time.

One example might be to start with simple counted breaths. Then you might try different breathing patterns thought to build energy or calm you down, and explore what those things feel like in your body when you're not doing anything else and can stop as soon as you feel uncomfortable if you need to. You might try pore breathing (breathing in energy to fill your entire body) or focus on exhaling things you don't want anymore.

Once you know how breathing affects you, you could then try other common exercises like centering and grounding - each time, starting with a basic approach, trying a couple of different ways until you find one or more that work for you and seeing how they're different. (This is a place where you might need to ask for help: different things work for different people.)

- Start with simple ritual work once you have the basics down

In my training, we started by finding a space in our homes for a shrine, then cleaning that space energetically of unwanted energy (banishing) and then putting wanted energy into the space. We'd then do a simpler version of this periodically for a while, while taking care of the shrine, until it became habit.

These are two of the early steps in circle casting, so it also built experience with different feels of energy in a space, but without moving on to try anything more involved.

Once we had that down, we would move to doing a larger space (like a room), trying some different methods (sound, broom, chants, etc.) and then to scribing the circle. We'd practice just doing the scribing and opening of the circle multiple times before we added anything new, then we'd work on calling the quarters and thanking them.

You'll notice these all involve two steps: inviting a thing, or creating an energy, and then thanking them and telling them we're done, or undoing the energetic construction. This is an important practice for anything you're doing that has a lasting effect.

The other part about this is that up until you start calling the quarters, the energies involved aren't terribly likely to attract other entities. (It's possible, just not that interesting, y'know? It's sort of like a car driving by on a fairly busy street: a little blip in the noise and movement that doesn't really affect you 99% of the time if you're sitting in your home.)

So by the time you get to inviting specific entities (guardians or ancestors or deities), you already have a solid way to have a line between you and other things that might be curious. (And then, of course, you can be very specific about what's welcome in your circle and what isn't.)

Entities and experiences
So, I already touched on this above, but basically, taking your time, doing one new thing each time, helps a lot. It'll stop you getting in over your head. If something doesn't feel good, you'll be pretty sure what it was, and can figure out alternatives.

The other big part is just being aware that just because an entity expresses an interest doesn't mean you have to do anything about it. As humans, we run into other humans a lot: a few might become friends or chosen family, but most of the time we see someone grocery shopping or at an event, or on our street, and we don't have a lot of interaction. Or we might choose to avoid someone we don't care for.

While there are occasional nasties out there, most of the time entities are like people we see in public - a few will be curious about us, but most are just going along doing their thing. Usually someone runs into the nasties only if they're really unlucky (wrong place, wrong time), or if they are doing things that make them very attractive energetically to an unusual degree without the ability to protect themselves.

(And the steps above won't do that: I'm talking things like doing a circle where you deliberately invite stuff to come see you that you don't specify, or are deliberately looking for power and to mess with other people, or very very strong emotions that are out of control and backed by ritual energy.)

Other safety precautions:
I have a long list of useful safety precautions on my website, which I recommend to anyone's attention. It covers a lot of the physical safety things (and again, this is where I've seen a lot more people have problems.

In most other cases, taking things slowly, building one new thing in at a time, and understanding what you want to do, how you're going to do it, and how to undo it will go a long way.

If you do over-reach yourself somehow, resting and doing something you find calming and relaxing is a good move. Just like our physical bodies will heal if we get out of their way after doing something stupid, our energetic selves will figure out how to get better if we pause and let ourselves recover.

When I was regularly doing new magical and ritual things, I tried to make sure the day after was an easy day for me, so I could curl up with a book or have a long bath, or do something else low-key and soothing if I needed to. I didn't usually need to, but there have been a couple of times I was really glad I'd made those plans.

Finally, some kinds of ritual work can have an effect on chronic health issues. People doing intensive ritual work can have blood sugar or blood pressure or other reactions, but that's usually true if it's a big new thing, or an intense new experience.

(So, for example, a simple circle to celebrate the summer solstice, probably won't be a problem unless heat or not eating for a while causes them a problem, but a long emotionally intense ritual for Samhain that includes dancing, waiting to eat until a particular part of the ritual, more incense than usual, and a lot of different energies might be more of a problem for some people or at some times.)

Personally, I find I tend to feel *better* in circle (asthma is less of an issue for me, even for activities where my lungs would usually complain, I am less sensitive to migraine triggers while in circle, etc.) but that sometimes goes away rapidly when we finish ritual.

This is part of why a lot of ritual magic advises you to sit down, have something to eat (eating is grounding and lets your body begin to rebalance itself) and rest for a bit before attempting to drive or do anything else complicated.

[RecycledBenedict]

On another thread I talked about my concerns about the magic used in rituals, saying that it was the only thing that really stopped me from joining the Wiccan path because I felt uneasy about it because of my fear of working with energy and the probability of attracting things.

Magic in real life is, of course, nothing like imaginary magic (such as the ones depicted in computer games, Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter). I would rather call magic in real life a practice where religion, psychology, art and an experimental approach meet each other, but the extent to which each of these components are present in any particular magical path differ considerably between particular paths.

Agnostic magic is, for instance, devoid of religion, while, for instance, hoodoo is very religious. A psychological approach was predominant in the English-speaking world c. 1920-1990, while the new millennium has seen the return of attention to the "spirit" aspect of magic.

There are many styles of magic. I know nothing about Wiccan magic, but I have practiced ritual magic intensely for thirteen or fourteen years, and less intensely for decades.

Self-knowledge and personal growth have been the focus of my work, projective magic, in order to facilitate positive coincidences in the outer world, less so.

Groups of persons do not refer to the same thing, when they use the word magic. When I write about it in this answer, I mean one, several or all of the following:

• ritual actions and physical postures and/or gestures
• physical symbols, some of them affecting taste and/or scent
• sound
• non-quantifiable subjective sensations, in some surroundings known by the unfortunate term "energy", but please be aware, that we are not discussing physics in this case
• altered states of consciousness (often, but not limited to, visualisation while in trance)
• calling for the attention of thought-forms and/or egregores (team spirits)
• calling for the attention of supposed spiritual entities, elementals, land-spirits, fairies, saints, polytheistic deities and angelic beings included
• calling for the attention of any supposed Supreme Being

In this answer, I will restrict myself to the use of altered states of consciousness, including active imagination. I hope, that other participants will answer you better, than I am able to, regarding other aspects of magical practice.

Active imagination is a tool used within some forms of psychological treatment, but it is also a frequently occurring tool within ritual magic. The subject enter a state of deep relaxation, and visualise an inner journey of some sort, according to a symbolical pattern, the choice of which depends on the aimof the exercise.

It is my opinion, that persons suffering from a borderline personality disorder, schizofrenia or psychosis ought to avoid active imagination (and non-visualising meditation over one's own breathing). Persons in these three situations often lack the eqipment to handle the influx of mental content (or, in the latter case, the relativisation of selfhood) stimulated by these psychological exercises in different ways.

[Isilwen]

Then I started reading the article by Jenett that she mentions in the other thread - "The question of magic".
http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics/the-question-of-magic/

And it looks like Jenett's essay deals with this idea very well

 
Thank you for linking me her website again. Read it and it has really helped me, so I really appreaciate your help!

Hi! Thanks for expanding a little more on your fears - I think this will be an interesting thing to discuss for a bunch of people.)

 
I thought you wouldn't be able to understand what I meant because I didn't know how to explain myself better than I did, but you actually got everything right. You talked exactly about everything I feared.
So I can't thank you enough for explaining all that stuff, and for expounding it. I have to add that you explain things in a way that is really easy to understand and that makes you realize that it makes sense!! I'm definitely gonna read every word on your website because it's going to help me a lot.

Maybe as I learn things I might keep thinking that magic (from casting circles to the rituals themselves) isn't for me, but you made me want to keep learning about it and try, slowly, but try and see. Which I didn't want to before reading you, because I had totally dismissed magic. So thank you.

In this answer, I will restrict myself to the use of altered states of consciousness, including active imagination. I hope, that other participants will answer you better, than I am able to, regarding other aspects of magical practice.

Active imagination is a tool used within some forms of psychological treatment, but it is also a frequently occurring tool within ritual magic. The subject enter a state of deep relaxation, and visualise an inner journey of some sort, according to a symbolical pattern, the choice of which depends on the aimof the exercise.

It is my opinion, that persons suffering from a borderline personality disorder, schizofrenia or psychosis ought to avoid active imagination (and non-visualising meditation over one's own breathing). Persons in these three situations often lack the eqipment to handle the influx of mental content (or, in the latter case, the relativisation of selfhood) stimulated by these psychological exercises in different ways.

 
Well, I was talking about even more "basic" magic, honestly, as basic as casting a circle and all the energy you can feel stading on it. I'm a scaredy cat.
The altered states of consciousness also worry me though.

I'm sorry, I'm nearly scared of breathing :ashamed:

Thank you to you too for taking the time on reading and answering me!

[Noctua]

The altered states of consciousness also worry me though.

I'm sorry, I'm nearly scared of breathing :ashamed:

Thank you to you too for taking the time on reading and answering me!

Altered states of consciousness is a more technical term that sounds a lot more scary than it actually is- we all naturally enter an altered state of consciousness every night, it's called sleep.

If you want to get into the science of it, we have four brain wave patterns that we go through every day: beta, alpha, theta, and delta. Beta is the most active, your highest thinking state. I'm in beta right now as I'm typing, and you'll be in beta when you read this. It's the highest gear your brain has. Just below that is alpha, a lower frequency brain wave. Alpha is the state your brain is in when you're daydreaming or doing light meditation; it's also the first downshift your brain makes in preparation for sleep. Slower than that is theta- theta is the wave pattern our brain makes during our dreaming states in sleep, but it also happens during periods of deep meditation and intense creativity. Finally delta, the slowest, only happens in the deepest stages of sleep, when even the brain takes a break for a time and there are no dreams.

The goal of many magical and meditation practices is to be able to enter a theta state at will, not just when you're asleep and dreaming. It's something that theoretically anyone can do, with enough practice, and usually carries no more danger than falling asleep. I've done it a few times, but I'm still working on the "at will" part- and probably will be for a long time.

[Darkhawk]

Well, I was talking about even more "basic" magic, honestly, as basic as casting a circle and all the energy you can feel stading on it. I'm a scaredy cat.

 
I'm an intermediate-level student in my formally trained Craft tradition and I have not advanced to the point of casting circle yet.  That is not actually a first step.

[Isilwen]

The goal of many magical and meditation practices is to be able to enter a theta state at will, not just when you're asleep and dreaming. It's something that theoretically anyone can do, with enough practice, and usually carries no more danger than falling asleep. I've done it a few times, but I'm still working on the "at will" part- and probably will be for a long time.

It does sound way better like this, thank you! I guess that fear lies in not being able to get back to the "normal" state when I want to? But again I guess I'll get that answer once I learn more about all of these.
 

I'm an intermediate-level student in my formally trained Craft tradition and I have not advanced to the point of casting circle yet.  That is not actually a first step.

Yeah, I know I won't be able to do any of the above said until a long time because there are a lot of things to learn before that. But I just wanted to ask these things to clear my mind and be able to continue the study because like I said I was about to search another path (still don't dismiss druidry though) because how these things were blocking me.

[Jenett]

So I can't thank you enough for explaining all that stuff, and for expounding it. I have to add that you explain things in a way that is really easy to understand and that makes you realize that it makes sense!! I'm definitely gonna read every word on your website because it's going to help me a lot.

You are so welcome! The thing that got me started on that website (well, one of them) was realising that a lot of books (and for that matter, a lot of other sources) don't always do a good job of explaining some things, and looking at the gaps and trying to write about those.

Maybe as I learn things I might keep thinking that magic (from casting circles to the rituals themselves) isn't for me, but you made me want to keep learning about it and try, slowly, but try and see. Which I didn't want to before reading you, because I had totally dismissed magic. So thank you.

Also great! You don't have to do magic if you don't want to - but I do think that the basic steps leading up to it are mostly really good skills anyway.

An awful lot of the magical work I do is actually pretty much self-awareness and psychology : I pay attention to how I feel and what I want, and then I do some stuff to make that easier for me to do more of the good stuff (or the stuff that gets me to a goal.) I use magical and ritual to help with that, but if we're going to be honest, at least half of it is the self-awareness parts.
 
Do feel free to keep asking questions. (Or if there's stuff you'd like to hear people talk more about, even if you don't have questions, though it's usually easier for me, at least, if you give me somewhere to get going...)

[Isilwen]

You are so welcome! The thing that got me started on that website (well, one of them) was realising that a lot of books (and for that matter, a lot of other sources) don't always do a good job of explaining some things, and looking at the gaps and trying to write about those.

 
Couldn't agree more with you. It happens even with books "for beginners" where even if they explain it in a more clear way, sometimes take for granted that we know the most basic thing.

Do feel free to keep asking questions. (Or if there's stuff you'd like to hear people talk more about, even if you don't have questions, though it's usually easier for me, at least, if you give me somewhere to get going...)

I'm sure I'll post more questions, especially since I just got a book by Doreen Valiente and she might not be as clear as you explaining things, although I'm sure in the end no matter how clear the things are, I'll end up having questions about something anyway hahaha.