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Author Topic: Old Man Winter = Odin?  (Read 7241 times)

Laveth

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2013, 05:58:33 pm »
Quote from: hlewagastir;104830
Nice catch (:
And a good reminder why source criticism is so essential. Remember a girl at my highschool who failed her exam; she made a wrong turn at google and got caught up in David Irvings holocaust denial. Probably not too bright in the first place, but still... :whis:


 
Are you calling me "not bright"?? ......
:p

http://www.thezaurus.com/?/webzine/vodin/

I think it may have been this one actually, not seeing the dating on this article but meh.

Like I said, it was a hectic time. I'm sure this thread has gone down to idle status anyway, but just to have a source for future readers...

Anyway, for some reason this thread is irking up my anxiety so I'll be bowing out here.

SunflowerP

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 05:13:50 am »
Quote from: Laveth;106724
http://www.thezaurus.com/?/webzine/vodin/

I think it may have been this one actually, not seeing the dating on this article but meh.

 
Noting just for completeness (not as any sort of criticism of you, Laveth, if you're still reading; Hlew asked where you got the info and you answered, that's all): different site, but the same author as the previous article.  Use salt accordingly.

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hlewagastir

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2013, 04:53:01 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;106724
Are you calling me "not bright"?? ......
:p


Weren´t directed at you... But you did just, roughly, post the same thing again :p

Quote
I think it may have been this one actually, not seeing the dating on this article but meh.


That was specifically what I asked for.


SunflowerP already addressed the general, problematic nature of the material in the links.

napherblair

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2014, 09:46:49 pm »
For the Norse mythologies, Ullr was the god of winter. Son of a frost giant, he would rule Asgard in Odin's absence in the winter. It was believed he created the northern lights to help compensate for the shortened daylight during the season.
 


-new to this

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2014, 11:44:19 pm »
Quote from: napherblair;167226


 
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yennork

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2014, 06:55:47 am »
Quote from: napherblair;167226
For the Norse mythologies, Ullr was the god of winter. Son of a frost giant, he would rule Asgard in Odin's absence in the winter. It was believed he created the northern lights to help compensate for the shortened daylight during the season.
 


-new to this


Where did you find this information? I've never read anything about Ullr's father, only that he is the son of Sif and the step-son of Thor. According to Saxo Grammaticus he did rule instead of Odin for ten years, but nothing about him ruling every winter.

He seems to have been an important god once, as there are several places in Sweden named for him. I don't think any of them are so far north the northern light is a common thing, though.
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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2014, 08:03:35 am »
Quote from: Thorson;104219
Is Old Man Winter another name for Odin/Woden?...Other sites state that Old Man Winter is just another of Odin's names and that he eventually morphed into Father Xmas.

Like many things of this sort, the reality is rather more complex than older theories would assume. And there's still a great deal of information that we just don't know. So I would take virtually any kind of claims like that with a grain of salt.
I think, though this is mostly my personal speculation, that it goes like this: the 'persona' of Father Christmas, Santa Claus, and related cultural figures was somewhat amalgamated and solidified in the 19th and early 20th century due to the dissemination and distillation of it through mass media. At around the same time, the Modernist approach to studying religion, anthropology, and history was exploding in popularity; Modernism had a quasi-obsession with the 'pagan roots' of modern Western civilization, and sought to draw connections between contemporary cultural traditions--no matter how recently-developed--with ancient polytheistic societies.
The Murrayite "witch cult hypothesis" was one of the results of this, and one that's been very influential in the development of modern Paganism. But another one was the alleged connection between Odin or Woden and Father Christmas, Old Man Winter, and Santa Claus--doubly enhanced by the ongoing Norse/Germanic cultural revival. It's one of those things that, because it wasn't really taken super seriously by scholars, it was ignored academically. But that just left to fester and grow in pop history, and it's an often-parroted concept especially in the modern Pagan community.

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2014, 10:30:29 pm »
Quote from: Louisvillian;167326
At around the same time, the Modernist approach to studying religion, anthropology, and history was exploding in popularity; Modernism had a quasi-obsession with the 'pagan roots' of modern Western civilization, and sought to draw connections between contemporary cultural traditions--no matter how recently-developed--with ancient polytheistic societies.

 
Just to clarify, which of the many various senses of Modernism/Modern/Modernity are you referencing here? While I can readily eliminate some of the senses in which these terms are used as irrelevant to your point, I'm having difficulty narrowing it any further. I'm supposing you mean either the arts/philosophy movement (except that doesn't quite mesh with 'approaches to studying') or the usage, in the social sciences and humanities disciplines, to refer to a historical period (except that doesn't quite apply to the phenomena/attitudes you describe).

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point, but I can't tell for certain how much I agree with it because I'm confused by that word choice.

Sunflower
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Louisvillian

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 08:19:12 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;167363
Just to clarify, which of the many various senses of Modernism/Modern/Modernity are you referencing here?

I mean the philosophical movement, as in this article. Specifically, I mean in how that philosophy was applied to comparative religion and anthropology, i.e. James George Frazer and the people that took after him, as well as Structuralism which took many cues from Modernist philosophy.

Aiwelin

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 12:33:20 pm »
Quote from: Thorson;104219
Is Old Man Winter another name for Odin/Woden? Opinion, from what I can gather with my Google Fu, is mixed. The Wikipedia page on Old Man Winter seems to cast doubt on a connection between the two. Other sites state that Old Man Winter is just another of Odin's names and that he eventually morphed into Father Xmas.

 
Thread drift has happened, but I have some thoughts on the original question I'd like to leave here.

I've been researching the Icelandic Heathen holiday of Thorrablot lately - very interesting.  In relatively recent history (pre-modernHeathenry) the first day of the month Thorri was seen as honoring a spirit or mythological being called Thorri.  He was seen in a very 'old man winter' way, portrayed as an old man who ruled over that time of year (January-February, the coldest and deepest part of winter in Iceland).  His name means 'frost'.

In the early days of modern Heathenry in Iceland, it was assumed that Thorri was a corruption of Thor, and that this day was properly a holiday to celebrate the Thunder-God.  Personally, I find the honoring of Thorri as old man winter to be a more interesting conclusion.  Considering the concepts of Jack Frost and Old Man Winter that have come to the US through Germanic immigration, and the popular figure of Santa Claus in our culture, the idea of an old man who lives in (and possibly controls) the ice and snow is something that, for me, deserves some exploration outside of simply being a diminutive Thor or a transformed Odin.
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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2015, 04:08:47 pm »
Quote from: Thorson;104219
Hi, first I'd like to apologize if this question has been asked before. I'm a total Noob.:ashamed:

Is Old Man Winter another name for Odin/Woden? Opinion, from what I can gather with my Google Fu, is mixed. The Wikipedia page on Old Man Winter seems to cast doubt on a connection between the two. Other sites state that Old Man Winter is just another of Odin's names and that he eventually morphed into Father Xmas.

So I figured I'd ask the experts here.:D:

Thanks in advance.


http://deitschmythology.blogspot.com/2013/11/ewicher-yeeger.html

While Odin has become associated with Yule along with Holle, I would say based on other posts and this article there is probably another god or being associated with Old Man Winter or Winter itself. While Ullr is a god of hunting and skiing he doesn't strike me a THE winter entity.

SunflowerP

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Re: Old Man Winter = Odin?
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 12:45:13 am »
Quote from: Louisvillian;170129
I mean the philosophical movement, as in this article. Specifically, I mean in how that philosophy was applied to comparative religion and anthropology, i.e. James George Frazer and the people that took after him, as well as Structuralism which took many cues from Modernist philosophy.

 
Aha, I'm following your reasoning here.

I think a major source of my confusion is that you use 'Modernism' as if the term referred to a direct precursor to Structuralism, in the sense of Modernism also being 'an approach to the human sciences'. (I'm referencing, here, the very brief summary from the disambiguation page for the term, 'Structuralism is an approach to the human sciences that attempts to analyze a specific field as a complex system of interrelated parts'.) That's not quite accurate; one feature of Modernism as a broad/sweeping trend of thought is that it's when the idea of having distinct, definable approaches to disciplines in that way came into being - Modernism as a whole preceded its application to the humanities, and that application wasn't as definedly an approach as Structuralism was. (The meanings of the root words for each term - how they are descriptive of the things they refer to - are also of relevance here.)

Though I still feel it's more broad/vague a term than is useful for what you're indicating, I don't have much to suggest for alternatives - a fairly large chunk of it can be more specifically pointed-to by talking about 'the monomythological approach', but what you're referring to is quite a bit larger than just monomythologism. So about all I can say here is that I'll strive to keep in mind that, when you say 'Modernism' on TC, this is probably the specific thing you're referring to. But this likely won't be the last time you'll have to remind me (though being able to point at this thread will make it easier), nor is it likely to be the last time someone has trouble following your usage.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

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