Pagan belief systems - does evil exist?

[SunflowerP]

Might be the hour - but this makes no sense to me.  I was speaking generally about Wiccans in my experience.  I was not picking out any particular tradition - BTW or otherwise.

Oh, but you were - you were making a statement that excluded all of the first cluster (BTW, who are the point of origin for modern use of the word 'Wicca'), pretty much all of the second cluster, and a large part of the third cluster, of traditions and currents that get called 'Wicca'. (See Jenett's useful page about different ways the word 'Wicca' is used, for what I mean by 'clusters'.) It applies only to those currents/traditions that are often called 'NeoWicca', to distinguish them from other types. (And not necessarily to all practitioners who fit under the 'NeoWicca' part of the umbrella.) So even if you were unaware of doing so, you were picking out particular traditions.

The Wiccans of your experience might well all be NeoWiccans. That doesn't make them representative of Wicca as a whole, it just means your experience of Wiccans is limited. Trying to talk about 'common themes in Wiccan ideology' by extrapolating from that experience will only lead to nonsensical, false-to-fact statements.

Maybe you can enlighten me on how BTW intention works.

 
Like this one. Leaving aside that I am not BTW and could only speak in very general terms about how anything BTW works, I can't possibly answer this as asked because it's not a meaningful question in context; 'intention' is not a central concept in BTW as it is in (much of) NeoWicca.

Sunflower

[HarpingHawke]

...But that's because I think that if Karma exists, it's probably more of a natural law than anything else.

 
It's interesting to note that Karma in its original definition and function is different from a Neopagan and/or New Age concept of it.

Link for further reading!

[Lana288]

It's interesting to note that Karma in its original definition and function is different from a Neopagan and/or New Age concept of it.

Link for further reading!

 
Lol! I've been on the cauldron long enough to know that it definitely is. Thanks so much for the link; I'll sit down later and give it a proper read through.

[HarpingHawke]

Lol! I've been on the cauldron long enough to know that it definitely is. Thanks so much for the link; I'll sit down later and give it a proper read through.

 
Haha of course! It wasn't addressed specifically to you. Hope you enjoy it--I found it to be quite informative.

[kratos264]

I have one Wiccan friend that says that evil doesn't exist. I, however, do believe it does. Evil in the form of great misfortune, premature death, unnecessary pain, natural disaster, disease. Also, human evil comes in the form of wanton cruelty, greed, gross abuse of power etc. It is elusive because it can look ordinary (banality of evil).

Like people, I don't think all gods or spirits are wishing the best for us at all times.

Do other Pagans believe in evil?

 
My understanding of what I have read is that it truly depends on the situation one is in, for example something might be evil in one situation but good in another situation. I believe that it depends if you were acting out of virtue or vice. However, I am new at this and could be completely wrong.

[Aubren]

I have one Wiccan friend that says that evil doesn't exist. I, however, do believe it does. Evil in the form of great misfortune, premature death, unnecessary pain, natural disaster, disease. Also, human evil comes in the form of wanton cruelty, greed, gross abuse of power etc. It is elusive because it can look ordinary (banality of evil).

Like people, I don't think all gods or spirits are wishing the best for us at all times.

Do other Pagans believe in evil?

I don't believe that the Universe has a sense of morality. I do, however, believe that nearly all living entities (including the non-corporeal) have a morality or code that they run by.

However, these are vastly different on individual, cultural, species, and other levels.

So, morality definitely exists as a universal principal, but it's not a shared, concrete principal.

[Merin]

Oh, but you were - you were making a statement that excluded all of the first cluster (BTW, who are the point of origin for modern use of the word 'Wicca'), pretty much all of the second cluster, and a large part of the third cluster, of traditions and currents that get called 'Wicca'. (See Jenett's useful page about different ways the word 'Wicca' is used, for what I mean by 'clusters'.) It applies only to those currents/traditions that are often called 'NeoWicca', to distinguish them from other types. (And not necessarily to all practitioners who fit under the 'NeoWicca' part of the umbrella.) So even if you were unaware of doing so, you were picking out particular traditions.

The Wiccans of your experience might well all be NeoWiccans. That doesn't make them representative of Wicca as a whole, it just means your experience of Wiccans is limited. Trying to talk about 'common themes in Wiccan ideology' by extrapolating from that experience will only lead to nonsensical, false-to-fact statements.


 
Like this one. Leaving aside that I am not BTW and could only speak in very general terms about how anything BTW works, I can't possibly answer this as asked because it's not a meaningful question in context; 'intention' is not a central concept in BTW as it is in (much of) NeoWicca.

Sunflower

 
I'll respectfully disagree.  When I used the term "Wiccan" I was using a general "umbrella" term.  If I had said - "Wicca, including BTW," then I would agree with you. But I think the point of your post was to point out that I should have used the word "Neo Wiccan" rather than just "Wiccan."  Okay, I can see that.  I didn't realize Wicca was separated like that now.  Thank you for the link. Turns out I have some reading to do.

I will apologize for the last sentence tho (referring to my original post).  I was feeling a bit snarky when I typed that.

[Merin]

I'll respectfully disagree.  When I used the term "Wiccan" I was using a general "umbrella" term.  If I had said - "Wicca, including BTW," then I would agree with you. But I think the point of your post was to point out that I should have used the word "Neo Wiccan" rather than just "Wiccan."  Okay, I can see that.  I didn't realize Wicca was separated like that now.  Thank you for the link. Turns out I have some reading to do.

I will apologize for the last sentence tho (referring to my original post).  I was feeling a bit snarky when I typed that.

 
I think that first sentence should read "excluding," but you know what, it doesn't matter.  What does matter is that I should have used the word "Neo-Wiccan" and I have been showing my ignorance all along.  

My apologies, especially to SunflowerP.

[Lionrhod]

I have one Wiccan friend that says that evil doesn't exist. I, however, do believe it does. Evil in the form of great misfortune, premature death, unnecessary pain, natural disaster, disease. Also, human evil comes in the form of wanton cruelty, greed, gross abuse of power etc. It is elusive because it can look ordinary (banality of evil).

Like people, I don't think all gods or spirits are wishing the best for us at all times.

Do other Pagans believe in evil?

 

Do I believe in "evil"? Yes- that's the short answer.

Are disease, famine, premature death, natural disaster, etc. necessarily evil? No, they're just facets of life on this planet.

Now, deliberate cruelty, jealousy, rage, greed, racism and similar things? Yes, I believe these are evil. Or to put it in hypnotic terms, I feel these are inelegant solutions to dealing with our negative emotions.

[Lionrhod]

First, define "evil".  (Possibly also 'believe in'.)

You've got three different apparent places where you might find something to call evil in your original post here: "bad things that happen", "human misbehaviour", and "entities that don't have your best interests in mind".  These are of course wildly different things, and any concept broad enough to encompass all of them is very likely to be vague enough to be useless.

Do bad things happen?  Yes.
Do people do things that are cruel, thoughtless, exploitative? Yes.
Are some beings malevolent?  Yes.
Do some beings just not give a shit about entities that aren't closely related to them?  Yes.
Are some of those beings humans?  Yes.

There are all kinds of things that I can answer "yes" to, but I can't answer "Do you believe in evil?" unless someone first goes into some detail to explain what it is that they're asking.

Because some of those things that I say yes to, if asked "Is that evil?" I would say "Of course not" to, or "It depends", or "That depends on what you mean by evil," or any of a number of other things.

(Mostly I use "evil" sparingly because too often its use mostly means "this is something about which I will not accept nuanced thought!  It is EVIL!")

Well said.

[Lionrhod]

I don't know about other pagans, but I certainly believe that evil does exist. Mostly, because I actually came up against a person that was genuinely evil.  Destroying lives just because he could. It's a long story, but yeah evil exists. I also believe that there are such things such as demons exist or rather really old and dark spirits.

 
I'll agree with you here, because I have also met similar dark spirits. It's rare, but it happens. When it does happen it is most un-fun.

One that I met was the hiring agent for a job interview I went to. He looked me in the eyes and said, "I crush people like you." No, it wasn't me not getting the stupid job that made me feel that way, he just emanated evil.

Another was a local psychic vampire/shell of a demon that used to hang around our local metaphysical shop. Oh the very inappropriate stories I could tell about this one and his rather twisted fantasies.

Lucky me, I got to abjure his presence from a crystal when the shop closed. Long story.