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Author Topic: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)  (Read 2672 times)

Aster Breo

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 01:56:06 pm »
Quote from: Allaya;185317
From my standpoint, sending a text is less intimidating and fraught with worry and crushing self-doubt than an email. A phone call is right out, no chance in hell.

It has nothing to do with the seriousness of my inquiry or commitment...it's down to what's most comfortable for me.

Jus'sayin.

I'm wondering if this is a generational thing. I don't know how old any of the people in this thread are, other than myself, of course, but I'm basing this on my own observations.

I'm in my early 50s. I text a lot with family all the time, and with a few friends for specific reasons, like I want to let them know I'm stuck in traffic.  For actual conversations with the same friends, though, I prefer email.  My adult kids (mid 20s), otoh, text almost exclusively and only check their email when I text them and tell them to.

Also, I work in 2 very different fields: technical theater and child advocacy.  In both, email is the norm.  However, in theatre, at least in my area, texting is common for time sensitive things, and for things like "I'm running late, be there in 30 mins". In advocacy, texting is fine between established colleagues, but would be...odd...as a form of initial contact.

So, I do think there is variation in what is acceptable to whom and in what circumstances.

All that said, though, regardless of someone's age or comfort level, if you've specifically requested contact be made via email, I think it's rude to continue to text. Especially since people can now use the same device (and say the same words) to send an email as they can to send a text. That is, asking someone to email rather than text does not impose any kind of hardship.

If I were in this situation, I'd be quite put off -- not necessarily by the original text, but by the rudeness and the failure to follow simple directions on the part of someone asking me to do something for them.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Juniperberry

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 02:23:45 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;185320
 My adult kids (mid 20s), otoh, text almost exclusively and only check their email when I text them and tell them to.

I'm 36 and I check my email maybe three times a month.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:24:11 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Redfaery

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 02:34:14 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;185322
I'm 36 and I check my email maybe three times a month.

 
29. I hate texting, and I check my email regularly. :)
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Aster Breo

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 02:40:04 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;185323
29. I hate texting, and I check my email regularly. :)

So, maybe it's not a generational thing. ;-)

Regardless, I do still think it's a rudeness thing and a following directions thing, given the specific request to reply via email.
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Redfaery

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 02:41:34 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;185324
Regardless, I do still think it's a rudeness thing and a following directions thing, given the specific request to reply via email.


That I can agree with. ;)
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Jenett

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2016, 10:18:25 pm »
Quote from: Allaya;185317
From my standpoint, sending a text is less intimidating and fraught with worry and crushing self-doubt than an email. A phone call is right out, no chance in hell.

It has nothing to do with the seriousness of my inquiry or commitment...it's down to what's most comfortable for me.

Jus'sayin.

 
I'm curious about this, if you're willing to share a bit more - what makes a text feel easier for you than an email?

I find sending texts *way* weirder with people I don't know well - and it also requires exchanging phone numbers with someone, which makes me feel fairly vulnerable in some ways, especially in a Pagan setting or with complete strangers because it connects to my legal name in ways my personal email doesn't.
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Jenett

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2016, 10:21:41 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;185319
Then don't work with him? I don't understand what the problem is here.

 
That is the option I'm likely going for here. But that wasn't my whole question - I started the thread to try and figure out if I was being a really unreasonable outlier and should maybe reconsider, or not.

The end result is that I appear to be something of an outlier, but not completely unreasonable, and talking about it has made it a lot more clear to me that i really do need email to manage in-depth complex conversations (yay, accessibility tools) with people I'm looking at ongoing complex interactions with (like someone asking me for training or coven membership) which makes me feel more comfortable about making it a hard limit on my end rather than "I'd prefer this, but could maybe work around it."

(I use a bunch of tools to help me come back to emails when I have time/focus/energy to respond to them/check multiple schedules/etc, and I don't have the same tools for texts. I'm not sure they exist, actually, without a lot of jury-rigging.)
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Jenett

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 10:25:04 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;185320
I'm wondering if this is a generational thing. I don't know how old any of the people in this thread are, other than myself, of course, but I'm basing this on my own observations.


I turned 40 last fall, so somewhere in the middle, generationally speaking.

As I noted, I use email by strong preference. I have a couple of friends I send quick texts to (usually if one or the other of us is out and about - like I'll send a photo of "This thing, I thought of you!"). It's great if I'm planning to meet a friend and they're running late or I am.

But for actual content, I need email. And my actual friends and people I want to spend time with all understand that if they text me, I may utterly not see it or forget to respond. (And if they call and don't leave a voicemail, same deal. I get voicemails as emails.)
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Jenett

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 10:32:54 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;185005
So, for those of you who have reached out to make contact with someone - about an event, because you're looking for a group or a teacher or a mentor, any kind of one on one contact, what method would you use?


On the plus side, this whole thing did make me finally go through the group website with a fine-tooth comb and update everything, in case anyone wants to see what the content is. (Basically, the email address I use for group work is only in two places: that site and the group's witchvox page.) http://gleewood.org/phoenixsong .

Much of the content that's there was already on the site: the specifics of 'here's what you're asking for, here's what the implications are', etc. have all been there for years. I did make a bunch of small edits, and also revamped some time-frame stuff.

The accessibility page is all new, though some of the content was other places on the site. I also redid the background page, pulling things from multiple other pages and adding a bit more. The common questions page has a few new questions (the children one  and the 'what do you cover in training' ones notably.)

I don't think it's the only way to handle this kind of thing (of course not!) but I do think it's a reasonable thing for people who are looking for small group work and initiatory training, and it gives a pretty fair idea of what I'm like as a teacher.

(The "I talk, write, and think in paragraphs" line came out of a conversation while I was working on it, and ... yeah. If someone isn't interested in that, we're not a good fit. A lot of things I can moderate or mitigate, but that's a pretty core feature and/or bug of the Jenett depending on one's perspective.)
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Phouka

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2016, 10:46:24 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;185299
Read it. And half a dozen others. (Author's name is Edain, for anyone Googling.)

I've personally found Judy Harrow's _Wicca Coven_ and Nick Farrell's _Gathering the Magic_ and Amber K's _CovenCraft_ all have some interesting bits in them among others, though a lot of my own approach (not unreasonably!) comes from the five or so years of experience I got answering initial emails, teaching Seeker (very low commitment intro) classes, and Dedicant classes in the tradition I'm now senior priestess in.

This is not my first time at this rodeo, in other words. Nor is my problem in having questions to ask.

My specific question in this post was "Okay, I'm getting a weird *method* of response, how do people who are currently looking for groups feel about this"

(Since I haven't, for complex life reasons, been seriously open for students for the past 5 years or so, and people's general communication methods have changed a lot over that time, and there's no reason that the Craft is different.)

And also wondering if the kinds of things I ask initially are perhaps too much. One of the things on my list for sometime in the next week is revamping the group site so it's more reflective of my current situation. (I did a really brief update when I moved 6 months ago, but it needs a better one.)

I'll post the link here when I do, so it might be easier to see what kinds of info I normally provide and what I ask for. (Might manage it tomorrow: I had a complicated week last week due to both personal and familial health issues.)

 

I am sorry, Jennet, I totally misread your original post. That said,  I am in my 60's and just got a smartphone in Dec. I really prefer phones to email or text,however, now that I've been working as HPS  and teacher,  I  would agree that texting would be dicey for me as it does give out my main contact number. Also, as you did give specific instructions for continuing a more in depth exchange of information, which the applicant ignored, it seems to me that the prospective student may need a different type of teacher.

Again,  I  apologize for my misunderstanding and look forward to seeing the  prospective update.

Phouka

Juniperberry

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2016, 10:48:21 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;185343
I'm curious about this, if you're willing to share a bit more - what makes a text feel easier for you than an email?

I find sending texts *way* weirder with people I don't know well - and it also requires exchanging phone numbers with someone, which makes me feel fairly vulnerable in some ways, especially in a Pagan setting or with complete strangers because it connects to my legal name in ways my personal email doesn't.

Not Allaya but...

In my first communication I'm likely to text because it's a quick, polite hello. If I didn't know I was expected to write an email first I probably wouldn't, because I'd be assuming that a lengthy email about myself was way too personal for quickly reaching out and making contact.

I also wouldn't want to call first because I'm shy. So texting is a nice happy medium for me. If texting seems relatively easy and friendly with the person, and they asked for a personal history/preference email, I would then be more happy to send one.

So initiating a conversation through text seems completely normal to me. Ignoring a request for email isn't.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 10:49:13 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Jack

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 01:31:05 am »
Quote from: Jenett;185346
On the plus side, this whole thing did make me finally go through the group website with a fine-tooth comb and update everything, in case anyone wants to see what the content is. (Basically, the email address I use for group work is only in two places: that site and the group's witchvox page.) http://gleewood.org/phoenixsong .

 
Well I think anybody who doesn't provide what you're asking for is ignoring some pretty reasonable and explicit requests and you can take that into consideration when deciding not to work with them.
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Aster Breo

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 02:42:10 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;185349
In my first communication I'm likely to text because it's a quick, polite hello. If I didn't know I was expected to write an email first I probably wouldn't, because I'd be assuming that a lengthy email about myself was way too personal for quickly reaching out and making contact.

I see it almost the opposite way. To me, texting someone I don't know seems *less* polite. In addition to the fact that it requires my personal cell phone number, it feels...idk... pushy, I guess, because the recipient doesn't have any control over when the text comes in.

With email, I decide when I'm going to check it. With text, my phone alerts as soon as I receive a text, and, since I text primarily with my family, I will check it as soon as I can.  I don't have to respond right away, of course, but I do feel compelled to read it when it comes in.

An email doesn't have to be any longer than a text would have been, so I don't see how the brevity of a text is really an advantage. And most people with a smart phone have the capability to send email from their phones, so texting isn't really more convenient than email.

It's interesting how differently people feel about this, isn't it?
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MadZealot

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 05:58:49 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;185363
It's interesting how differently people feel about this, isn't it?


It is.  IMO, texting someone I don't know is damned rude, and getting an unexpected text from a stranger would be damned strange.  Texts are for immediate fam (my wife & my Dad) with other messages going thru FB.  If I don't know you privately or on Facebook, then I don't expect (or want) to hear from you.  
But this is coming from the cranky bastard who once had occasion to say get off my lawn, did so with much enjoyment, and waits for another such opportunity.  
 
To Jenett's original post: I found my old coven online.  I reached out to them, offering first name only plus a summary of relevant interests and experience.  Their responses were pretty quick and when they did call (from a private line) they used their craft names.  Didn't bother me; I got why they'd want a barrier between strangers.  We met on neutral ground (Starbucks) and after we shat the bull for a couple hours all felt comfortable to share real names and contact numbers.  After a couple weeks they invited me to their Yule.  It was a cautious process.  But probably necessary, even here on the Left Coast.
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Allaya

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Re: Making first contact (and new-fangled communication methods)
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 06:42:15 am »
Quote from: Jenett;185343
I'm curious about this, if you're willing to share a bit more - what makes a text feel easier for you than an email?

I find sending texts *way* weirder with people I don't know well - and it also requires exchanging phone numbers with someone, which makes me feel fairly vulnerable in some ways, especially in a Pagan setting or with complete strangers because it connects to my legal name in ways my personal email doesn't.

 
Texts force me to be concise and I am much less likely to stumble over myself and write something that someone can pick apart. Also, they expose me less in the sense that I can always pick up a new SIM card, but changing emails is a HUGE upheaval.

And to supply some context for how my thoughts have been shaped: SIM cards are cheap, online classified ads routinely have you texting strangers, and (honestly) nobody here gives a shit.

If I were to be actually active in the greater pagan-o-sphere, then I'd just get a dual-SIM cellphone. One card/number/ringtone for the personal side and one card/number/ringtone for the pagan side.
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