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Author Topic: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?  (Read 2792 times)

Jack

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 03:30:11 pm »
Quote from: Aiwelin;142294
Working with relatively little-known Gods, I've done quite a bit of re-purposing of my own.  I think I have a few statues of Greek deities that I use for others, and a Venus of Willendorf that's become the representative of my local river Goddess.  I personally feel uncomfortable using Christian or saint imagery, but that's more because they remind me of my upbringing than any inherent wrongness I see in re-purposing.  Particularly because, as Randall said, in Catholicism the statues are not homes to the spirit themselves, they are representations of that spirit.

 
This matches my feelings on the matter.

I actually have a statue of Mary that I bought specifically to represent the goddess Mara, who's a little more obscure and, as far as I know, has no commercially available statuary. There's some possible basis in historical syncretism but honestly, it just was the best statue I found for her. I've also used other statuary for her, including a Kuan Yin and, at one point, regular decorative statuary.

I agree that it's probably not a good idea to address a statue as Hekate if your husband is currently using it in Marian devotion, but if it's essentially decorative otherwise then I'd say there's no harm in it. If you're worried about using one that's already in the house, you could look for a saint that feels appropriate. (Maybe St. Brigid?)
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quarks

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2014, 02:42:30 am »
Quote from: stellamaris777;142246
So my husband is catholic so I have alot of Mother Mary Icons and female saint images around well we have a Kitchen Madonna as its called and the story behind it that it has a place in the kitchen, kinda makes me think I could repurpose it as a shrine to Hestia maybe? Incognito so the husband doesnt start in on me? I've already repurposed a Guadalupe and Santa Muerte statues to Diana and Hecate is repurposing a no no? I've kind of used in the past just vague images like the spiral goddess but I figure there must be some feminine energy in these icons why not use them right?

 
If it isn't blessed and your husband doesn't use it, I don't see a technical problem with using it if it's a statue.  Catholic Icons seem to carry more of a religious connection as windows to heaven or some such with me, but that might just be me.  Just because the statue reminds him of something else doesn't mean you can't use it if he isn't.  I would have a personal problem with not telling my husband and would see it as disrespectful towards him, but that's a different topic.

DavidMcCann

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2014, 01:38:24 pm »
Quote from: Jack;142313
That's actually not something [Guanyin as Xi Wangmu] I've heard of before! Where have you come across it?

Sorry, but I make notes from so many books and websites and don't always keep my references (unless I'm writing for publication} so that one escapes me. It makes sense to me, though, and I generally spot and avoid fluffy sources.
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Jack

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2014, 02:17:24 pm »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;142408
Sorry, but I make notes from so many books and websites and don't always keep my references (unless I'm writing for publication} so that one escapes me. It makes sense to me, though, and I generally spot and avoid fluffy sources.

 
In what way do you see it making sense, then? Because Xi Wangmu and Kuan Yin seem quite different to me, one being a Queen Mother goddess who's one of the oldest attested to in China and the other being a Buddhist goddess.
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mlr52

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2014, 03:23:33 pm »
Quote from: Jack;142411
In what way do you see it making sense, then? Because Xi Wangmu and Kuan Yin seem quite different to me, one being a Queen Mother goddess who's one of the oldest attested to in China and the other being a Buddhist goddess.

 
Try this link I do not vouch for it, https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/theos-talk/conversations/messages/57101

 H. P. Blavatsky (about one third way dow the post) "The question which came naturally was, whether there existed an earlier version of "Kwan-Yin", the female goddess in Tibet in ancient times?

I found out that there indeed did exist such a goddess. This goddess was named Xi Wang-Mu or Wangmu. And she is considered very old by science and by the Chinese themselves.
And since this Wangmu as a Kuan-Yin if we follow Blavatsky's Stanza is a triple Logos - male and female according to Blavatsky, she is - in one of her three aspects - as the case might be - also what we called Fohat, the (feminine) Light of Logos (the male). Fohat (the propelling force of life as such) is the steed and thought is the Rider, said Blavatsky in the Stanzas. This can be seen in SD, Vol. I, on the pages 136-137 and as the Vaikhari-Vach in the Vedas on page 138, also page 81 - But Vach is not worshipped in India like in Tibet and China says Blavatsky (!), page 136. ("Kwan-Yin are synonymous with fire and water", - Transaction of the Blavatsky Lodge, p. 117) Kwan-Yin is the mother, wife, and daughter to the Logos as the case might be says Blavatsky. Further it is known that Kwan-yin is given as the Yin-aspect in Daoism (Taoism) by historical research.
Now if all these here mentioned view points are true, as I think it is - let us have this carefully in mind"
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Jack

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2014, 04:47:10 pm »
Quote from: mlr52;142415
H. P. Blavatsky (about one third way dow the post) "The question which came naturally was, whether there existed an earlier version of "Kwan-Yin", the female goddess in Tibet in ancient times?

 
Blavatsky did a lot of interesting writing but she was pretty much the original new age mash-up artist, so I'm hesitant to assign much weight to the synthesis without additional support.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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mlr52

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2014, 04:56:03 pm »
Quote from: Jack;142420
Blavatsky did a lot of interesting writing but she was pretty much the original new age mash-up artist, so I'm hesitant to assign much weight to the synthesis without additional support.

 
Mash-up artist I like that.  In my mispent youth I tried reading her works, (after a few years, I gave it up as a not so good idea), now I would like to try again, but do not have the time.
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Jack

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2014, 05:04:07 pm »
Quote from: mlr52;142422
Mash-up artist I like that.  In my mispent youth I tried reading her works, (after a few years, I gave it up as a not so good idea), now I would like to try again, but do not have the time.

 
She's fun in the right time, place and context, certainly. I've spent time with her in my research on Atlantis/Lemuria/Mu and there's a lot of things there that are interesting and can produce exciting thought experiments. I just... she's kind of like the Victorian equivalent of the Ancient Aliens guy. She strings together a handful of things that are pretty close to correct and then drops the equivalent of "THEN IT MUST BE ALIENS."
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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mlr52

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2014, 05:22:25 pm »
Quote from: Jack;142423
She's fun in the right time, place and context, certainly. I've spent time with her in my research on Atlantis/Lemuria/Mu and there's a lot of things there that are interesting and can produce exciting thought experiments. I just... she's kind of like the Victorian equivalent of the Ancient Aliens guy. She strings together a handful of things that are pretty close to correct and then drops the equivalent of "THEN IT MUST BE ALIENS."


Her works are not what I consider light reading and that is without trying to go down the interesting points.
 
I can take about five minutes of Ancient Aliens (sometimes I blame it on his hair style ;).
Light Your Candle, In Love and Service, Blessed Be.
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Jack

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2014, 05:26:05 pm »
Quote from: mlr52;142425
Her works are not what I consider light reading and that is without trying to go down the interesting points.
 
I can take about five minutes of Ancient Aliens (sometimes I blame it on his hair style ;).

 


Sounds legit.
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DavidMcCann

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2014, 02:49:01 pm »
Quote from: Jack;142420
Blavatsky did a lot of interesting writing but she was pretty much the original new age mash-up artist, so I'm hesitant to assign much weight to the synthesis without additional support.

I'm shocked, shocked, to think I might have got this from Madame :eek:
But seriously, she did copy the best secondary sources. I think the point about Guan Yin is that she only appears as female in the Tang period, which suggests that Avalokita has been assimilated to a non-Buddhist deity. They just seem similar to me, especially in works of art, but then I'm no Sinologist.
Minorities are almost always in the right.
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beachglass

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2014, 07:35:28 pm »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;142488
I think the point about Guan Yin is that she only appears as female in the Tang period, which suggests that Avalokita has been assimilated to a non-Buddhist deity. They just seem similar to me, especially in works of art, but then I'm no Sinologist.

Well, Avalokitesvara could appear in multiple forms, some of which were female. Chün-fang Yü argues that it was the popularization of legends such as that of Princess Miao-shan, as well as the need of women for an alternative to male-centricism in the religions of that time, that cemented the idea of Kuan-yin as female.

She also finds the links between Kuan-yin and the indigenous Chinese goddesses to be inconclusive, other than some borrowing of iconography. She suggests that it was the decline of these indigenous goddesses that made room for the female Kuan-yin.
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stellamaris777

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2014, 01:16:42 am »
Quote from: beith;142293
In my opinion, it depends on whether these items are owned and used by your husband.  Are the Mary, female saint, and Kitchen Madonna statues/icons your husband's?  If so, he is using them in a Catholic context and I feel it would be disrespectful to your husband and his religion for you to secretly repurpose them for Hestia or other goddesses.

Do you own the items?  If the items are yours and it's just a matter of hiding them from a spouse and a culture that is not accepting of your beliefs, then I don't think it's necessarily "bad" to repurpose the items.  

I do agree with other posters that using non-statue items such as candles may be your best option.


No they were wedding gifts from his to me actually! He just explained to me where women normally keep Kitchen Madonnas and I thought Hestia! He doesnt use icons so to say they were just gifts his aunts and grandmas and his mom gave me even though I'm not catholic? yeah doesnt make sense to me either but doing some research online there are some who do work with Mary as a goddess a woman said she basically has attributes of every goddess almost. So I'm going to do some soul searching to see if maybe being married to a catholic has a reason maybe mary is my goddess?????? I thought hestia was since I am so domestic but this could be a possibility right? I like certain mythos but have never felt a bam connection with a certain goddess maybe this is a sign?

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2014, 09:44:38 am »
Quote from: stellamaris777;142668
No they were wedding gifts from his to me actually!

 
In that case, since they are yours and your husband doesn't use them, I think you would be fine to repurpose them.  I'm fairly secret about my religion as well as I have very Christian parents who I don't want to cause distress to, so I understand the position you are in.  As Randall mentioned earlier in this thread, the deities or saints that the images depict are not believed to reside in those images, so you wouldn't be disrespecting the deities/saints in question, nor your husband in the sense that you are co-opting his religious imagery.

Scales

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Re: Ideas about repurposing images for altars and shrines?
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2014, 07:16:37 pm »
Quote from: stellamaris777;142246
So my husband is catholic so I have alot of Mother Mary Icons and female saint images around well we have a Kitchen Madonna as its called and the story behind it that it has a place in the kitchen, kinda makes me think I could repurpose it as a shrine to Hestia maybe? Incognito so the husband doesnt start in on me? I've already repurposed a Guadalupe and Santa Muerte statues to Diana and Hecate is repurposing a no no? I've kind of used in the past just vague images like the spiral goddess but I figure there must be some feminine energy in these icons why not use them right?

I haven't read the whole thread (yet) so I'm just going off this and first impressions.

If they are yours, and they're not passed down from the family, and it has that significance in the kitchen and stuff, I think the Madonna>Hestia would work (though I don't know Hestia). An icon of a lady with certain symbols could be any lady associated with those, in my book. If it was passed down, I'd say no, since it would be 'charged' as who it belonged as (and I would definitely respect that object both as a religious object and an heirloom).

ETA- Seeing your last post, I don't really have a problem with the items being used that way. As has been said, the idols don't contain the deities.

On the bit about your husband and incognito (this is assuming he doesn't know you're pagan at all)- you guys really need to have a talk. If you were just starting to research paganism I could let secrets and lies slide, since it could be starting a fight over something that ended up not actually interesting you, but if you already have two shrines, I'm assuming your beliefs are pagan already. If you can't tell him, you should probably be in marriage counselling, because something is wrong if half of a couple can't talk to the other about religion (either out of fear or embarrassment).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 07:22:57 pm by Scales »

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