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Author Topic: I have questions about Asatru and Druidry. Please give me advice, opinions, anything.  (Read 4231 times)

hlewagastir

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Quote from: David;93503
Also, I apologize for all the separate responses. I was not sure if I was supposed to respond that way or not.  I was lazy, and didn't look it up so please forgive me for that.

 
No prop, just remember to quote ;)

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Quote from: David;93498
Thank you Emerald for your advice about ADF. I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me a little bit about your journey even though you were tired.  That is very kind of you, and I thank you for telling me some about that.  :)

A Reminder:
Please remember that proper quoting is required by our rules. The autogenerated quote BBCode must be left in any replies, you may tirm the quoted text, of course. We have modified the forum software to quote instead of reply. If you are using tapatalk via a smartphone, the quotes are not automatically added (as we can't mod the tapatalk software), but you are still required by the rules to properly quote.
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Quote from: RandallS;93551
A Reminder:
Please remember that proper quoting is required by our rules. The autogenerated quote BBCode must be left in any replies, you may tirm the quoted text, of course. We have modified the forum software to quote instead of reply. If you are using tapatalk via a smartphone, the quotes are not automatically added (as we can't mod the tapatalk software), but you are still required by the rules to properly quote.

 
David, I'm hanging this here, because what Randall says is part of your difficulty in quoting.  On a couple of occasions, you've failed to quote as required because you deleted some of the code - usually, I think, the end-quote code.

By "code" we mean "the stuff in between the square brackets".  Anything you quote will have stuff like that at both the beginning of the quoted part, and the end.  You need to be careful not to delete any of either bit.

The other difficulty you're having is related to a forum software quirk.  When you delete all text and just leave the quote codes, you have to make sure the two bits of code are on different lines - so after you delete the text, hit the enter key.  Otherwise, your quote appears to vanish - it's still there, but it's not visible.

And, you're doing it right by this forum's rules by replying to each person in a separate post.  Many other forums object to "double-posting", but we prefer it over replying to each person all in one post, for the same reason we have such strong rules about quoting: it allows us to follow the conversation better by linking back to each thing being replied to.

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David

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Quote from: hlewagastir;93540
No prop, just remember to quote ;)


I am guessing that the quote is working this time.  I did not intentionally mess up the quotations.  Hopefully I will do the quotations right from now on.

David

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Quote from: RandallS;93551
A Reminder:
Please remember that proper quoting is required by our rules. The autogenerated quote BBCode must be left in any replies, you may tirm the quoted text, of course. We have modified the forum software to quote instead of reply. If you are using tapatalk via a smartphone, the quotes are not automatically added (as we can't mod the tapatalk software), but you are still required by the rules to properly quote.


I think it is working now.  I will try to quote correctly, and I did not intend to do it incorrectly.

David

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Quote from: SunflowerP;93559



I am guessing that it worked when I put the quote codes like this on separate lines. I hope it did work right.  I do have the intent of not breaking the rules with quoting.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention in a message that was easy to understand.:)

Scáth

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Quote from: David;93375
About a year ago I identified as a Heathen.  I had read a good bit about Asatru for a beginner. I felt like it was the right religion for me, and so I said some sort of prayer dedicating myself to the worship of the gods of the religion.  

I then ended up losing belief in it and retracting my belief...

My thoughts are now about becoming a part of a neo pagan path again.  I like the gods of Asatru a lot, but I am more attracted these days to a more nature based path like Druidry.  I do however have it in my mind about the oath-breaker part, because if I was right about me being an oath-breaker..........

If I don't continue being Asatru and the interpretation I had of the religion was right then I go to the equivalent of "Hell", I left Christianity and so I have hell for that if that is real, and then I left Islam which is Hell if that is real...


Does anyone have thoughts about this?  Also, is anyone who is reading this a Druid?  I feel drawn towards Druidry, but I don't understand what I have read about how the gods of Druidry are not believed to be involved in human affairs.  If that is true then where does help in life come from according to Druidry?  I am confused religiously, and I don't know what to do about it.  I want to be a pagan, but I don't want it to be life enriching and not fear provoking.  I do not know if I can just identify as a Druid and worship the Celtic gods?  
Thank you for reading this.

Hello David,
I can understand your frustration or confusion.  Please allow me to give you a little bit of my background so you can understand where I am going with this. (Hopefully, I won't be long winded about this.)

I am a seeker. Period. I look for sources of wisdom and inspiration wherever I can and then use it to build my own system.  It is never stagnant and is always changing, shaping, and often, I am shaped by it.  
I have been a member of ADF since 2006 and have learned a lot from their material, especially by working through the ADF Dedicant program with f Michael J. Dangler's Working Guide.  I am currently working through OBOD's courses.  I belong to and have gained a lot of insight from all the kind folks from a few different Asatru organizations.  I offer blót at the seasons and am quiet fond of Thor in particular.  He is like a big brother hero to me.  

I do not have any altars or shrines to any deities.  Most of the time when I preform blót, I don't use anyone else's guide, I just say whatever comes to me at that time.

Although I feel strong connections to Freya, Thor, and Freyr, I also have a history and strong connection to the Morrigan.

If you made an oath to the Norse gods, it should be honored.  That does not mean that you have to continue to follow Asatru if you feel like you should go elsewhere.  Perhaps the gods are sending you elsewhere.  Odin was constantly traveling, searching, journeying, and learning.  Spirituality is not a destination, it is vast landscape with wonders just waiting to be discovered.  Even the Eddas, the lore for followers of Asatru, Anglo-Saxon, and other Germanic heathen groups...that is just one peek through a window in time to see into their would.  The Saxons had different points of view (as well as different names for the gods Odin= Woden) than the Danes, Norwegians, Swedes or even the Icelandic people (where the Eddas were actually written).
So I guess my advice is, follow your gut. I hope you enjoy some of the scenery as you continue with your journey.

Scáth
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 01:22:13 am by Scáth »

Lionrhod

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Quote from: hlewagastir;93449
More importantly, did you include some kind of punishment if you broke the oath?

As someone already pointed out; you are taking it too much from an Abrahamic perspective:
As far as we know the norse gods don´t have a "hell-like" place which they use as the default punishment or something... Then Loki might have been sent there instead of being strapped to a rock.
A punishment could also be that you lose the "connection" and that they do not do good in your life.
Also, you losing faith is not necessarily a problem for them, what is a problem is if you have made an oath that you "would worship them forever and should be smited by lightning the day you don´t". Or something like that...
Faith is not a requirement, sacrifice/worship is - the action is what counts.

If you are really freaked out you can just sacrifice something in atonement, that is what I would have done.

On oaths in general:
-Include a consequence if you break the oath and also how you can restore yourself if you break it.
-Make sure there are witnesses that can hold you to it (or write it down), or make clear to yourself how you know if the god received and accepted your oath (fx by drawing lots) - in general oaths seem to be more a human to human thing, than a human to god thing IMO.
-To give an example: "I promise to establish an alter to Thor, within four weeks from now, if I should fail; the punishment is expulsion from the benefits of the gods, until I make an offering of restoration of [insert sacrifice/value of it]"

Then you know what the punishment is going to be and how you can restore yourself.

 
Very nice!

I had not considered writing the punishment for breaking an oath into the oath itself, and I like this very much.

The only advice I was ever given about oaths was, "give your word rarely, hold to it fast."

But yeah, people are not perfect. Sometimes we make oaths we cannot keep any longer without being untrue to ourselves. Some times we muck up.

As an example, I once promised to "have and to hold" my ex-husband. (Note the EX part.) Then he put a gun to my head one night and I had to re-think that promise, because keeping it might have eventually meant my own death.

It would have been good to have an, "or else" clause built into that, and might have saved me many years of angst.

I've been to many a sumble where we oathed various things, and one of the nice things about that was that it became a buddy system where those of us who witnessed an oath would support the oather in keeping that promise.

Additionally, my path calls for an inward oath (breaking or creating a habit that helps us become better people) at Yule and and outward oath (taking an action to make the world a better place) at Litha/Midsummer. Each of these oaths has an endpoint of 6 weeks (until the next sabbat) and thus if we keep going past that, fantastic, but if we don't go beyond it there is no failure, so long as we keep the oath for 6 weeks.
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Lionrhod

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Quote from: David;93375
About a year ago I identified as a Heathen.  I had read a good bit about Asatru for a beginner. I felt like it was the right religion for me, and so I said some sort of prayer dedicating myself to the worship of the gods of the religion.  

I then ended up losing belief in it and retracting my belief.  I then started worrying that I was permanently in the stats of an "oathbreaker" and that when I died I would go to the Norse equivalent of Hell where Muderers etc. go.  That freaked me out and I couldn't make peace with it, and so I totally left the religion.

My thoughts are now about becoming a part of a neo pagan path again.  I like the gods of Asatru a lot, but I am more attracted these days to a more nature based path like Druidry.  I do however have it in my mind about the oath-breaker part, because if I was right about me being an oath-breaker..........

If I don't continue being Asatru and the interpretation I had of the religion was right then I go to the equivalent of "Hell", I left Christianity and so I have hell for that if that is real, and then I left Islam which is Hell if that is real.  So suffice to say it is disturbing thinking of all three of the religions.

I could never make myself be a Christian or Muslim again, because I'm strongly against the basic teachings, but I do like Asatru.  I don't however feel drawn to it like I used to though.

Does anyone have thoughts about this?  Also, is anyone who is reading this a Druid?  I feel drawn towards Druidry, but I don't understand what I have read about how the gods of Druidry are not believed to be involved in human affairs.  If that is true then where does help in life come from according to Druidry?  I am confused religiously, and I don't know what to do about it.  I want to be a pagan, but I don't want it to be life enriching and not fear provoking.  I do not know if I can just identify as a Druid and worship the Celtic gods?  Or is there more to it than that as a solitary practitioner?  It is the only neo pagan religion that seems to feel right other than Wicca, and I'm not really that drawn towards the magic part very much.  I have no access to any sort of group, so I am going to have to be a solitary practitioner regardless of my religion.  Maybe I should just study Wicca...... I don't know.... I mainly just want to feel like I have a connection with higher powers that care about me so that I can better cope with life.  There is good information that I have read online, but what I really want is to hear some advice and opinions and beliefs and the sharing of experience by other people who have been pagan a long while, or at least long enough to know more than me, which would not take very long for someone to know more than me about Pagan religions.  I do not know a lot.

I hope to hear some thoughts from other people.

I don't expect anyone to tell me what to believe, because I know that isn't practical or wise of me to expect that, but any comments or advice would be very greatly appreciated.

Thank you for reading this.

 
Okay here from a Wiccan/Druidic perspective:

In our path "oath-breaker" "waerligga" (modern translation "warlock") was someone who joined a coven to infiltrate it and then turned them over to the witchhunters. I'm thinking that's not you.

One of the oaths I took on my first degree was to "keep sacred the Sabbats." I struggled with this for a long time. Sometimes (especially when I was living 1500 miles from my previous coven/students) I couldn't circle with them. Sometimes I couldn't manage the time and the energy to do ritual for the Sabbat even on my own.

Then I started considering what "keep Sacred" meant. Does it mean I have to do ritual? No, I don't think so. What it means for me is that I need to pay attention to it, to consider the changes in my life associated with it For me to meditate on the day and the transformation whether or not I decide to do ritual.

And now, at risk from the "usual ridicule" that happens when I state this, I'll say that my path CLAIMS (I can offer no proof, nor do I care to) to be a survival of Druidry from after the devastation of Mona. They later claim to have become the court magicians of Europe. Our path later merged with a path of Celtic/Welsh Wicca and were approved by the Wysardn (the Druidic survival) to merge those paths and practice in the US,

Both OBOD and ADF are recreations of Druidry, and perhaps fairly accurate ones, but recreations nonetheless.

So what a druid is is quite open to question.
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Juniperberry

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Quote from: David;93375
About a year ago I identified as a Heathen.  I had read a good bit about Asatru for a beginner. I felt like it was the right religion for me, and so I said some sort of prayer dedicating myself to the worship of the gods of the religion.  

I then ended up losing belief in it and retracting my belief.
 I then started worrying that I was permanently in the stats of an "oathbreaker" and that when I died I would go to the Norse equivalent of Hell where Muderers etc. go.  That freaked me out and I couldn't make peace with it, and so I totally left the religion.


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Is untrue and not to be trusted.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 07:33:33 pm by Juniperberry »
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Quote from: Scáth;183250


 
Quote from: Lionrhod;183266


 
Quote from: Juniperberry;183287


 
Scáth, Lionrhod, JB, and anyone else who's thinking of posting to this thread,

Just so you know, this is an old thread, and the OP hasn't been logged on on TC in nearly three years. It's okay to revive threads, or reply to revived threads, if you have something constructive to add or would like to see the discussion continue, but it's highly unlikely that the OP will see anything you say to him, much less respond.

If you've found a thread by seeing it in the 'similar threads' list at the bottom of a page, it's very likely to be an old thread - it's a good idea to take a look at the dates on the posts before deciding whether to post a reply.

And if you see a thread with new posts in it, but clicking on the 'read new' icon (a circle with a double arrow in it, immediately to the left of the thread title) doesn't take you to the first post, that means it's an older thread that someone has revived, and, again, checking dates is a good idea.

As I said above, there's nothing wrong with posting to older threads - but knowing that a thread is old will help ensure your post is useful to those who will actually be reading it.

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