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Author Topic: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.  (Read 1472 times)

David

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I know this might sound strange to a lot of people, but I was reading over a thread that someone had written on this forum and they mentioned Tarot cards, and I felt this "feeling" in my spirit that was good and comforting and calming.  I feel convinced in my spirit that Tarot cards are a link to whatever gods I should believe in, and I know that there is nothing evil about it based on how I felt inside.

I can't logically explain it, but I now strongly believe that tarot cards even though I have never used them.

Most of the sites that I saw from google were just sites from Christians trying to scare people about demonic possession.  I absolutely don't believe in demonic posession and it sickens me that Christianity tries to demonize anything it can't use to control people.  I am sorry if this offends anybody if so please forgive me, but I was raised Christian, and the hypocrisy of the religion is abhorrent to me.  I am no longer a Christian but I was a preachers kid growing up and was a devout Christian until about age 18 or 19.

I wasn't even searching for anything about demons or Christianity.  I typed in something like "neopagan religions that use tarot cards" and most of the things I saw were about Christianity.  It really bothers me.

But please can anyone tell me what neopagan paths use tarot cards?  I strongly feel in my spirit that the divine that I'm supposed to worship told me in my spirit that Tarot cards are good to use, so I know that I can rule out any (for me not for others, please know I'm not saying that others aren't valid religions or paths) path that does not use Tarot at all.

Can someone please give me advice and share pagan knowledge with me about this?  I know it may sound strange, but I really did have a spiritual experience, and it was one of peace and comfort, and those are feelings that I am not used to, so I'm not going to believe anyone who tries to tell me that what gave me peace and comfort is "evil".

I really want to have a path to follow, and I really look forward to hearing any ones thoughts or comments on what I wrote.  I do not hate Christians, but I do hate mainstream Christianity, and I hate it, because it claims to be the only way to the divine and uses "satan" and "eternal torture" as ways to control people and I know this because I have lived in the culture in depth.  I am not bashing Christians.  I hope that this doesn't offend anybody.  If so then I am sorry.  I want to stress that I don't hate anybody for their religion no matter what it is.  Hating people feels wrong to me, and I wont embrace that to the best of my ability.

I hope someone can tell me what neopagan paths use tarot and which ones don't.  The paths that I have had interest in are Druidry, Wicca, and Asatru.  Those are the paths that I have considered and those are the paths that spark my interest.  I hope to hear from anybody and I am sorry if I've repeated myself and for grammatical errors.

I want a path so much, because I am the type of person that likes to have a religion to go to as a source of comfort, and there is nobody of any religion that could convince me at this point that there is no divine anything and that Tarot cards are "evil".  I don't expect people to believe me, but I know that what I "felt" was real and it was of comfort and peace in my spirit.

Thank you for reading and please respond if you want.  I hope to hear from people.:)

Sage

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 08:42:21 am »
Quote from: David;93437


 
Hi, David!

Many folks, Pagans or otherwise, use divination as part of their spiritual or magical practice. There's nothing that says a heathen or Druid can't use Tarot - in fact, I'm a Druid who uses Tarot almost exclusively in my divinations - though some may want to look for a more culturally-relevant divination practice, like the runes for heathens or the  ogham for Druids.

Tarot is incredibly popular and not seen as evil at all in the Pagan world. (Very few things are seen as evil, actually.) The website that's helped me the most is Aeclectic Tarot, which includes basic card meanings and reversals, and plenty of deck reviews. (There are at least a few hundred different decks out there. :) )
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 01:13:42 pm »
Quote from: Sage;93454

Thank you sage for your response :) It is nice to hear from you, and it is also good to know that there is a Druid who uses tarot.

I know from the spiritual experience that I had that tarot is what the divine wants me to use at least some in my relgion//spiritual practice.  I did an online tarot reading for free from a site that I liked, and I had read conflicting opinions about the validity of tarot online, but I believed it would work, and the results were amazingly accurate.

I was so surprised.  There is no way for anyone to convince me that I was not lead to tarot by the divine, because one thing that I trust in my spiritual experience is what feels right in my heart.  

I feel very drawn to Wicca, but I do admit that I like the polytheism of Druidry.  However, I feel like there is more of a stress with a personal connection to the divine in Wicca?  Also, I was at first very interested in the ADF for becoming a Druid, but the fact that you have to pay to join is incredibly offputting to me.  No offense at all, but I am not willing to embrace any religion where I have to pay to belong.  That goes against my conscience.  I hope that isn't offensive.  I just didn't see anything about being a druid that didn't have to do with either paying money or it not really being pagan and being just a term that many Abrahamic people liked to use.  I hope you can shed some light on this for me.

I will admit though that from what I have seen I am the most drawn to Wicca, but Druidry is still appealing to me.  However, it is very important to me that I have a deeply personal relationship with my gods.  I don't know if that is possible in Druidism.  I was actually planning on starting my Book of Shadows today for Wicca, and learning and writing in it until time had gone by for me to dedicate myself, but Druidism is still interesting me somewhat, because of the multitude of gods and goddesses.  I like there being lots of gods and goddesses in religion, but other than that I fully love everything I know about Wicca.  I do love the God and Goddess of Wicca as I understand them, but I do not know why I find polytheism so interesting verses the belief in two gods.

Please comment on this Sage if and when you are able, and also please I ask if anyone wants to comment at all please do :) I know that I'm a Pagan, and it feels good.  I have never felt this at peace before.  I don't have to reject my humanity to be a Pagan.

Thank you to anyone for reading this.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:06:59 pm by RandallS »

Jenett

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 02:32:53 pm »
Quote from: David;93479

I feel very drawn to Wicca, but I do admit that I like the polytheism of Druidry.  However, I feel like there is more of a stress with a personal connection to the divine in Wicca?


One thing worth noting here is that there are bunch of different ways people use the term Wicca. You might find some of the articles on my website helpful there - http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics is the page I'd start with. (In particular, the approach to deity is something that can be notably different between traditional Wicca and some of the more eclectic of the eclectic strands of Wicca.)

Quote
No offense at all, but I am not willing to embrace any religion where I have to pay to belong.  That goes against my conscience.


Different religions have different takes on this - for example, many Wiccan traditions have direct prohibitions on charging for training in the tradition.

However, the reality of our world is that some things cost money. Just as religious communities that support a physical building (and that costs money to repair, to heat, to have electricity in), organizations in general that do stuff usually need to pay for some of that.

I'm not a member of ADF (not being a Druid!) but in Wiccan groups, it's very common to ask for donations (either of materials or of cash) to help with shared communal expenses: candles, incense, wine, etc.

In the ADF's case, they do a really nice job listing what your money goes for, and they make their annual budget transparent. Some of it is for an actual print newsletter (which will cost them money to print and mail), so we're talking about the $25 membership fee itself.

And in that case, membership gives you access to training, to group-specific resources, to specific resources for particular interests, as well as the more general "supporting the administrative side" for about the cost of two books.

Now, you can decide whether or not that's worth it to you (and maybe it isn't yet, or maybe you need more information about it to decide - lots of people talk about the ADF Dedicant training experience if you search blogs or this forum or other resources), but that's also not an unreasonable amount given what they're providing.

And to give you some comparisons, many Wiccan groups who ask for contributionsto group expenses ask $5 a month (or $60 a year), and many public ritual events (where it's just a ritual, not a larger festival) ask for $3-5 a ritual. I should note that even that those rates, many groups don't break even, and it's quite common for the clergy or teachers involved to be putting out from their own pocket to make training and education available - in money, not just time.

Healthy groups will generally:
- Be really clear about what the money goes to and what the actual expenses are (which ADF is)

- Do their best to keep costs to a level that people even on the tightest budgets can probably swing it ($20 for a year really is at that level: I've had years where that was my weekly food budget, and I could still have managed it if I'd had to, given a few months planning time.)

- And if the above isn't possible, doing what they can to provide work-study or sliding scale rates, or whatever that allow people to balance money and service. (This is a place where face to face groups are often more flexible just because there's more tasks that can be handed to someone easily, like 'move these chairs' or 'sweep the floor after' or whatever.)

(To give you a personal comparison: right now I'm meeting with someone who's interested in intro to Wicca at a local coffee shop. She's unemployed and money's really tight, but I still expect her to spend $1-2 on something to drink (easy there: there's several options) as a thanks for the space. I buy dinner there, and I spend a good bit more (usually about $12). In exchange for which I get to eat my dinner while spending two hours talking, which is not always the thing I'd pick to do that evening out of every possible option.

I enjoy teaching, and I enjoy talking to her - but it's also important to me that she put out something that facilitates that space/time/etc. In other cases where I've taught, it's been asking someone to bring a dish to share at my apartment while we talk and eat, or something like that, but for various reasons, cooking for other people feels like more work than I want the past few months. So. I ask her for a dollar or two every couple of weeks in coffee she gets to drink.)
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David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 03:18:20 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;93496

I really appreciate your in depth response to me.  With that in mind, I might pursue the Druidic path, but apart from the extensive polytheism, I feel much more drawn to Wicca.  I am going to read some from the site you suggested.

I just am not able to be a part of a path that involves public gatherings at this point in my life.  I need to be solitary.  I don't know if I want to limit myself to one pantheon when I do not know much about the Pantheon to begin with.  I have heard people say that gods and goddesses will choose you.  I now see the practical aspect of the fees, but I honestly am still not comfortable with it being a requirement to "become"a certain kind of Pagan.  I understand from the financial aspect of resources, but when it comes to a persons spirituality I don't think that it is something that has to be bought in order to be authentic.  I however am absolutely not implying anything negative about you or about anyone in particular.  I also don't know what that particular Druidic church's view on becoming a Druid actually is, as to whether or not you have to pay to be one.  It is a mute point really, because I am not feeling very comfortable with structure of it being a church for me.  I don't mean for other people. I am interested in a primarily solitary path, and I am not comforted by the concept of a religious church in comparison to solitary practice.  For me my spirituality is deeply personal even though I do eventually hope to practice whatever path I'm in with others to some degree at some point.  

I was wondering about that.  I will read about the site you listed, and if I still have questions about things that pop into my mind then I will write them out on the forum.  Thank you for your help and advice. :)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 06:39:48 pm by SunflowerP »

David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 03:22:47 pm »
Jenett, I am sorry about not quoting before.  I didn't do that on purpose.

Sage

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 03:30:20 pm »
Quote from: David;93479
Quote from: Sage;93454

I know from the spiritual experience that I had that tarot is what the divine wants me to use at least some in my relgion//spiritual practice.  I did an online tarot reading for free from a site that I liked, and I had read conflicting opinions about the validity of tarot online, but I believed it would work, and the results were amazingly accurate.

I was so surprised.  There is no way for anyone to convince me that I was not lead to tarot by the divine, because one thing that I trust in my spiritual experience is what feels right in my heart.


I've been very lucky to have had good experiences with Tarot readings, both giving them and receiving them. If you're having this positive a reaction to Tarot, I would definitely recommend learning more about their history and researching decks. I for example use The Wildwood Tarot[/i] which is very Celtic and Druid-y in imagery and interpretation.

I feel very drawn to Wicca, but I do admit that I like the polytheism of Druidry.  However, I feel like there is more of a stress with a personal connection to the divine in Wicca?


Jenett has awesome advice, and I'd also like to add this: Wicca and Druidry are both incredibly diverse as far as -theisms go. I've met Wiccans of all stripes (polytheists, duotheists, Goddess monotheists, etc) as well ad Druid who were everything from hard polytheist (gods are separate from each other, totally and completely) to very general nature-based animists or pantheists who really didn't bother with deities too much. For example, ADF is hard polytheist; OBOD and AODA, I believe, can encompass more pantheistic or "softer" polytheist views.

Quote
Also, I was at first very interested in the ADF for becoming a Druid, but the fact that you have to pay to join is incredibly offputting to me.  No offense at all, but I am not willing to embrace any religion where I have to pay to belong.  That goes against my conscience.  I hope that isn't offensive.  I just didn't see anything about being a druid that didn't have to do with either paying money or it not really being pagan and being just a term that many Abrahamic people liked to use.  I hope you can shed some light on this for me.


Also agreeing with Jenett says - the $25 a year for ADF to be an official member is more like organizational dues going to administrative upkeep (server costs, allowing ADF to offer the training it does, advertising, etc) than "pay money to be a Druid." Money doesn't make you a Druid, or a witch, or a Christian, or a Pastafarian. The gods do that - or you do it with Them.

Even if you decide not to pay, you still have access to most of the ADF site, two general mailing lists, all the Druidic blogs and forums out there, as well as any ADF ritual you'd like to visit. Every ADF grove is required to hold eight open rituals a year on the High Days, for free, to anyone who shows up. For free, you can also access things like The Core Order of Ritual and try it out to see if an ADF-style ritual resonates with you.

What do you get with the $25-a-year membership? You get access to more of the website and to more mailing lists as well as material to start the Dedicant Path. (That's not a requirement of ADF and many long-term members never complete that circle of study; however, it is open to all members and is a requirement for further training.) If you complete the DP in a year, that's $25 for a year-long introduction to one form of Druidry, training, ritual, practice, etc. And if you don't like it, then you don't have to renew your membership.

ADF is by far the cheapest organization if you're looking for Druid "training" (though again, no one can make you a Druid but you and the gods, and there's an entire lifestyle and worldview behind it). I would love to look at other options but seriously don't have the money right now to commit!

Quote
I will admit though that from what I have seen I am the most drawn to Wicca, but Druidry is still appealing to me.  However, it is very important to me that I have a deeply personal relationship with my gods.  I don't know if that is possible in Druidism.  I was actually planning on starting my Book of Shadows today for Wicca, and learning and writing in it until time had gone by for me to dedicate myself, but Druidism is still interesting me somewhat, because of the multitude of gods and goddesses.  I like there being lots of gods and goddesses in religion, but other than that I fully love everything I know about Wicca.  I do love the God and Goddess of Wicca as I understand them, but I do not know why I find polytheism so interesting verses the belief in two gods.


Just so you know, Wicca and Druidry are not incompatible. There is such a thing as Druidcraft which seeks to blend aspects of the two. And of course, there's nothing that says you couldn't practice both. I practice Druidry, witchcraft, and a very basic Kemetic (Egyptian) devotion, as well as belong to the Unitarian Universalist church.

Some Wiccans are polytheists. Some Druids are animists or pantheists or even secularists. I have a very close relationship with my deities within my Druidry.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Sage

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 03:35:13 pm »
Quote from: David;93504
I just am not able to be a part of a path that involves public gatherings at this point in my life.  I need to be solitary.


I've been a solitary Druid and ADF member for almost three years - it definitely can be done. You mentioned that you'd visited the Solitary Druid Fellowship that Teo Bishop ran, yes? That's an extension of ADF. It's certainly open to anyone who's interested and there's no fee associated with the SDF work Teo's heading, but that might give you a better idea of ADF structure.

Quote
I now see the practical aspect of the fees, but I honestly am still not comfortable with it being a requirement to "become"a certain kind of Pagan.  I understand from the financial aspect of resources, but when it comes to a persons spirituality I don't think that it is something that has to be bought in order to be authentic.  I however am absolutely not implying anything negative about you or about anyone in particular.  I also don't know what that particular Druidic church's view on becoming a Druid actually is, as to whether or not you have to pay to be one.  It is a mute point really, because I am not feeling very comfortable with structure of it being a church for me.


I'm a little confused about you referring to ADF as a "church". It's a religious organization, yes, and there's some ritual structure and theological teachings that make somethings "ADF Druidry" and some things "other Druidry" and other things "not even Druidry at all", but it doesn't function as the same kind of religious, judgmental hierarchy that I think you're worried about. In ADF you don't pay to be a Druid. You pay if you feel that the organization is a good enough fit that you want to be a part of it and support its goals (and have support in return).
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Jenett

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 03:52:07 pm »
Quote from: David;93504
I just am not able to be a part of a path that involves public gatherings at this point in my life.  I need to be solitary.

There's different kinds of solitary.

If you mean "not able to go to physical gatherings", then, that's one kind. However, it's still possible to be part of a larger community of a number of paths without being able to do that.

(You can't be a trad Wiccan without working with other people, at least for a while, and that's true of a number of other initiatory paths. But that's a bit different, too.)

Quote
I don't know if I want to limit myself to one pantheon when I do not know much about the Pantheon to begin with. I have heard people say that gods and goddesses will choose you.


Sometimes they do. But in general, I think it's smart to spend some more time learning before you commit yourself. (ADF is generally relatively open to Indo-European deities, other Druidic groups may be more tightly focused.)

Quote
I now see the practical aspect of the fees, but I honestly am still not comfortable with it being a requirement to "become"a certain kind of Pagan.

As Sage explained, in this case, it's the administrative costs of being a member of that particular group.

(Remember, I just said that a) I don't charge for training, and b) I'm currently out $10 a time when I'm teaching someone, plus my time and effort in figuring out what I'm talking about and talking with her. I am very much not on the 'paying for teaching is always the right thing' side here, in other words.)

Anyway, there's a difference for me between paying for religion, and being fair in contributing to the work of organisations and groups I care about, want to continue having around, and available as a resource. Especially if I want to *use* their resources.

Because of that, I chip in money here, every month, because I care about the Cauldron (even though, proportionately, I usually spend a lot more time helping people than getting help, these days.) If I go to a public event, I chip in more than the requested donation if I possibly can, because I know some people won't be able to, and I know it costs money to host public stuff, because I help do that too.

And if I go to a friend's house, and they do nice stuff for me, I try to show up with something they'll like. (Reminds me, I should pick up maple sugar candy for the Minnesota trip sometime.) That's part of being an adult, who is trying to be fair and recognise that there's a give and take in relationships.

It doesn't have to be equal (again, I had years in which my budget was miserable, and the meals friends had me over for were the best meals of my week, because my budget was *that* tight). But I could show up willingly and help with stuff they wanted, or give them a ride somewhere, or do something else in exchange that worked for us both.

Anyway. You can be a Druid without being a member of the ADF or any other druid organization. But it is harder to show an organization you want to give as well as take. And money is a simple way to cover their actual costs (since their webhost doesn't get paid in good will and volunteer help). And thus, if you want access to *their specific materials*, then yeah, money's likely involved. OR some other sort of exchange, with groups that don't charge.

(Trad Wicca, as I said, doesn't. My favourite line about this from an elder on a list I'm on to someone carefully asking what training would cost, was "It doesn't cost money, but I have to like you enough to want to spend time with you first." Money, as I said, can be a lot simpler to negotiate sometimes.)

Quote
I don't mean for other people. I am interested in a primarily solitary path, and I am not comforted by the concept of a religious church in comparison to solitary practice.  For me my spirituality is deeply personal even though I do eventually hope to practice whatever path I'm in with others to some degree at some point.  

Do you think that people in churches and in Pagan groups *don't* have a deeply personal spirituality too? Because, hi, yeah, we mostly do. You can't sustain group practice very long if you don't.

It's fine that groups aren't your thing. It's fine that they may not be logistically possible for you. But I think you've got some misunderstandings about how Pagan groups are often different from churches (and for that matter, that not all Christian churches work the same way, either.)

Pagan groups generally share *practices*, not beliefs, so what groups are is really a community of people who want to talk about those shared practices - how to do them, how to make them work better, why we do them in the first place, and so on.

And we do stuff together, and then we go off and we do stuff on our own, too. And hopefully the two inform each other, and make both bits better, and we learn things from each other. But even with the people I am absolutely closest to in terms of my group practice, there can be *vast* differences in what we believe, which deities we work with privately, what kinds of stuff we do, and so very much more.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:53:13 pm by Jenett »
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David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 04:20:02 pm »
Quote from: Sage;93510
I've been a solitary Druid and ADF member for almost three years - it definitely can be done.

Thank you for your very detailed response. I apologize for writing in such a way that seemed insulting about ADF. I actually feel drawn towards ADF, but also towards Wicca.  I don't expect anybody to believe me, but something Divine moved me spiritually when I read about Tarot Card readings last night, and I did my first reading from an online site that was free, and a lot of people I read on different websites had criticized online Tarot readings but it was very very accurate.  It was just a basic free reading online, and I was amazed at how accurate it was.

It isn't that I don't want to pay the money to be in ADF. It is that I live with my parents, and I don't know how they would react with me using their credit card to join ADF.  What would I need to do to consider myself a Druid or a Wiccan?  I do believe in polytheism.  I believe there are lots and lots of gods in existence.  I don't know if Wicca or Druidry is better for me.  I am attracted to Wicca, but I'm polytheistic, and you said that some Wiccans are.  It's just that I know that I need to be solitary, and I want to have a label. I know that may sound unnecessary but it would give me comfort and focus.  I don't know about whether or not I should pursue Wicca and be polytheistic or be a Druid and practice witchcraft too.  I don't see how I can do both..... I guess I should look at the Druidcraft religion.  I don't know.  

If I considered myself a Druid after learning more about it and did the free online ADF program, would I have to choose which gods to worship and stick with those gods? I read online that some people get chosen by a god or goddess.  I don't understand that.  I really want to start pursuing a path soon even if I am not able to label myself a Druid or a Wiccan right away.  I want to have focus about what I'm doing.  

What do you think? I know that Tarot is going to be a huge part of my spirituality, because I know in my heart that whatever gods are there directly "directed" me to use tarot for comfort, peace, and direction.  I know that divination is already a part of my spirituality, and I am wondering if divination is considered witchcraft?

I guess I want to go with either Wicca or Druidry, but I have to have divination involved including Tarot.  I am a polytheist, but I want to feel connected to one or a few gods in particular.  I also read that Ouija boards are dangerous to use as divination to someone who is inexperienced.  I read from about.com I think it was that Ouija boards involved allowing a spirit or something to possess you while you are using the board.  I was wondering if that same belief is viewed with Tarot? I suppose I was at least guided by the Divine magickally or in some way, because I know for sure that the Tarot reading I did yesterday was accurate. I am not planning on using a Ouija board any time soon if ever, but since divination is already a huge part of my spirituality because of Tarot, I was hoping someone could comment about this to me.

I hope to hear from you Sage when you have the time or also from anyone else who wants to read this.  Thank you to anyone who has read this.  I pray that the Divine will be with all of you.  I will almost certainly sign on and check the forum not too much later in the day.  

Also, Jenett.  I am honestly sorry if I offended you or hurt you in some way by the things that I wrote. I see what you mean about me having had misundertstandings about pagan organizations.  I did not mean to sound insulting if I did.  I do want to be in a group setting even though the thoughts of it make me pretty nervous, but I can't drive right now because of money issues, and I live with my parents even though I'm a man because of money issues.  They are Christian, and I don't like the thoughts of asking them to take me to a Pagan religious service or I'm not sure the right way to word it.  I honestly mean no offense, and I am honestly very thankful for yours and everyone elses comments so far since I have been on this forum.  Please know that I am not having a negative image in my mind of Druidry or Wicca whether public or solitary. You are right that I did have misunderstandings, and I understand now what you mean about give and take.  Please do not be upset with me.  I am really a kind guy. I just make mistakes a lot.  I hope to hear from Sage and you Jenett about the things that I have written in this thread.

I know that I should learn and practice a path for a while before dedicating myself to one, but I want to have one in mind. I am strongly drawn to either Wicca, Druidry, or Druidcraft (I think is how Sage worded it).  I am sorry if I am repeating myself, but divination is absolutely necessary in my religious path, because I know the Divine wants that of me, because I was "directed" towards it, well Tarot cards that is.  

I hope that what I have written make sense, and I know there are probably lots of grammatical errors, but please forgive that.

Based on what I said I hope to hear feedback about whether or not I sound more geared towards Wicca or Druidry if it is possible for anybody to comment on that.  I know very little about both, but I know I feel drawn towards both in some way.  I honestly can say that I think I'm more drawn towards Wicca if I can be polytheistic and believe in many gods and goddesses.  I am very drawn towards the magickal part if divination is considered magic.  I don't know if Tarot is viewed as magick or not.  I am almost sure that I have repeated myself a lot so I'll stop here.

Thank you to anyone who has read this, and thank you for being patient with me.  Please know that my heart is in the right place, and I know that I am a pagan and a polytheist, but I do not know for sure what path to pursue and eventually dedicate myself to.  I am going to try to take a nap.  I am almost surely going to check this forum not too long after waking.  I understand if no one has time to respond in that time.  Sage and Jenett, I hope to hear from you if you want to or have time to comment on this and also to anyone else who wants to comment.  I am open to any comments and suggestions. I would love it if it would be possible for me to pursue a certain path for now to have a sense of direction (without dedicating myself right away).  I enjoy communicating with other Pagans.  

Thanks again for reading this and for your patience.:)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:07:51 pm by RandallS »

Vale

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 05:08:46 pm »
Quote from: David;93516


Thanks again for reading this and for your patience.:)


David  - my suggestion to you would be to slow down a little and relax! There is so much information out there that it sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees.

You may well wander down a few dead ends and have to back track a bit. I know I have. I don't regret my brief detours into wicca and neo-duidism. Neither lasted very long and I knew pretty quickly neither was for me but it is all part of the learning and growing process. Spiritual development is a lifetime journey and they were areas I needed to explore before deciding I belonged elsewhere.

I was solitary for many years which suited me fine as I'm not the most sociable of people. In fact I'd be perfectly happy as a hermit in the woods if that was possible. I did however reach a point in my own development when it was clear to me that I wanted to start doing things that required other people. At that point I had to venture out of my solitary comfort zone but if you'd told me 5 years ago that I would be practicing with a group I'd not have believed you!  

Start simply - what calls to you? I started by saying good morning to the sun everyday. Dreadfully corny I know but it put me in the right frame of mind to be open to what the rest of the day was to bring. I added a shrine to the local goddess and let things develop from there.

As for tarot, I really cannot thing of any pagan path that wouldn't allow you to use the cards if you wanted to.

David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 07:02:13 pm »
Quote from: Vale;93526
David  - my suggestion to you would be to slow down a little and relax! There is so much information out there that it sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees.

 
Thank you Vale.  I watched a video about ADF Neo Druidry, and after watching that, I strongly feel that it is not right for me.

I am going to try and pursue Wicca.  The things that you said were comforting to me, so thank you.:)

Jenett

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 07:14:59 pm »
I wrote a long reply, and then my web browser ate it, and now I'm home, there are other things I ought to be doing, so let me try this again more briefly.

First, I agree with Vale's advice: you don't need to sort this all out right now. (It may feel like it, but honest, you don't.) It's okay to take some time, read a lot, ask a few questions, and then see where you are.

I'd also note that Pagan religions are not, on the whole, designed for comfort. That may happen, but it's not a primary purpose for most of them. And, as well, a number of the most public representations of the Pagan religions tend not to do 'support in dark times' as well as they could - those are mostly things that are more reliably found in specific traditions or groups or communities, because those places have tested and developed the stuff that works in the hard times more. (Books, on the other hand, often skim over that kind of thing, because much of it is so dependent on context.)

Along with the other stuff I pointed at, you might also find the essay on asking smart questions on my website useful: http://gleewood.org/seeking/reaching-out/smart-questions/

Quote from: David;93516

It isn't that I don't want to pay the money to be in ADF. It is that I live with my parents, and I don't know how they would react with me using their credit card to join ADF.


If you look carefully at the form, it notes you can pay with check or money order (the latter are something you can get at most post offices, a lot of drug stores, etc. in the US.)

If it's the money at all that's a question, then one of the things to think about is getting your life in better order and more under your control. Exploring a new religion can shake up a bunch of things in your life, and generally it's easier on you if you get the practical, mundane details of your life as much under deliberate control (and with some choices) as you can.

Quote
What would I need to do to consider myself a Druid or a Wiccan?


Again, that depends. I'll let someone else speak to Druidry, but as I said earlier, Wicca is used in a wide number of ways. For initiatory trads, you need to find someone to train you, agree to initiate you, and so on - and that's not a trivial process.

For more eclectic Wicca, well, there's more variations. Bluntly put, if you call yourself Wiccan, it's up to you to demonstrate what that means, up to you to take on being a representative of that to the world, and up to you to negotiate with the relevant Gods whether they're going to smack you over the head with a clue-by-four.

In general, I suggest holding off the names for a while. In initiatory trads, there is usually an *extended* period of time between "Hey, I might be interested" and "I am now this thing". There's a bunch of good reasons for that, including the fact it keeps people from making commitments they turn out not to want.

The usual advice - more for Wicca than Druidry, but also true for several of the Druid organizations - is to say "I'm studying this stuff for a while." (at least a year) and at the end of that, see what's next. Many groups refer to this as Dedicant training or a Dedicant year, but there's other terms out there.

Quote
Also, Jenett.  I am honestly sorry if I offended you or hurt you in some way by the things that I wrote. I see what you mean about me having had misundertstandings about pagan organizations.


I am hard to offend (which is to say, you didn't offend me) I am, however, finding your comments a bit frustrating to answer.

I pointed you at the 'asking smarter questions' page above because I can see you casting around trying to figure stuff out. And that's a good thing to do. (I'm a librarian: I see people do this a lot, about all sorts of topics.)

But at the same time, I see you doing a bunch of stuff that makes it harder for people to answer you. In this particular post I'm replying to, you repeat yourself several times. I am so not the queen of conciseness (as all the forum regulars know), but long posts mean fewer people will read them.

Repeating yourself - the same basic info - in the same post makes that worse. (Repeating stuff you've said a post or two earlier, same thing, though obviously if there seems to be a confusion, clearing it up is good.)

For example, you've made it clear you've got limitations on transportation and finances. You don't need to keep apologising for it or explaining it - but it could help people give you more useful suggestions if you gave us different info. (For example, my question about whether it's a card thing or an actual money thing, above. They have different solutions.)

The other way I see you getting bogged down is assuming that you know what other people's experiences are. On most forums - and I think especially places like this one - one of the easiest ways to get yourself into a messy conversation is to tell other people why they do the stuff they do, or why it's not important.

I try, when I write, to speak very much about me, my experiences, my information, my understanding. The instant I start saying something like "People who do X..." or "Everyone who..." or "All whatever" or anything like that is a sign I'm probably going to frustrate someone else.

And if you want other people to help you, doing the stuff that frustrates them is probably not your best bet.

(I get away with being long and wordy and not-concise because I'm mostly not asking people for help, and because I have an established habit of saying things some people find interesting. I *know* there are people whose eyes glaze over at my responses, and I'm okay with that because I know there are people they help. But it's very much a deliberate choice.)

Witchcraft is like that: knowing ourselves, making specific deliberate choices that shape the world around us in particular ways, to create the goals we want. I can do that in magic, but I can also do that through a pattern of responses online, or nudging a conversation a particular direction, or .. lots of things. Life has lots of choices.

(Actually, being an adult is like that, but that's a larger philosophical question.)

In terms of what you do about that: take some time. Explore different options in Druidry and Wicca. Don't just look at one single source - the things that one given author or - as I preview this - one video - focus on may not be entirely accurate for the larger group, or may not click with you.

Look at people's recommended book lists. Read the forum a lot. (And read more than you ask questions, perhaps: you can learn a great deal that way.) Read people's experiences of things like the ADF Dedicant year (people blog about it, after all) or Wiccan training, or responses to various intro books.

People - including me - are likely to be willing to answer questions, but it's going to be a lot easier if you take a bit more time, and supplement it with a lot of background reading as you go.

Right. Now off for other tasks in my evening.
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David

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Re: I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 08:59:30 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;93561



I have never been so passive aggressively helped before.  It was hard to read everything you wrote, because it felt like I was reading a subtly aggressive critique of what I should be doing and what I'm doing that is not consistent with your recurring theme of what it means to be an adult.

You said that I frustrated you, and I was being open, which I'm usually not with people I hardly know.  I even mentioned that I had repeated things a lot.  In hindsight I would have written less and gone over what I had written more.  I want to make it incredibly clear that I no longer want your help.  I have tried to be kind to you, and you even went so far to tell me that I should get my life in order.  You don't know anything about my past or my life.  You have absolutely no idea how hard I'm working right now in my life and what I have been through.

The fact that you contribute money to this forum upon most likely many other things should imply to you to try to demonstrate at least a grain of compassion towards someone who is obviously stressed out and searching.  

You have deeply offended me, and if you're frustrated because you feel like I'm out of place then you should probably consider a more gentler approach or distance yourself from representing solid viewpoints on religion.  You have wronged me, and I'm not longer willing to communicate with you if you are going to continue to speak to me as if I am some sort of socially outcast-ed child.

I don't think I want to use this forum, anymore because of your coldness, and accusations towards me.  Its frightening that you actually try to educate people about spirituality in any context.  If any of this sinks in then please let it be this,

If you are going to claim to present information about Wicca that is intended to be taken seriously then first you should search within in yourself for some compassion and empathy, because you aren't supposed to cause harm as a Wiccan, and you certainly have.  

I'm going to stop myself here before I become discourteous.

stephyjh

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I felt peace and comfort in my spirit about Tarot. Please read this.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 09:54:23 pm »
Quote from: David;93586

I'm going to stop myself here before I become discourteous.

...Little late.

Also, "harm none" is not what the Rede says. To shorten it thus emasculates and falsely represents it.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

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