collapse

Author Topic: Hindering Help  (Read 2144 times)

JovesChild

Hindering Help
« on: September 19, 2012, 09:21:56 am »
So, I've only one IRL friend who is a practicing pagan for nearly 20 years now. She's been a tremendous touchpoint on taking my initial steps on this path, however I'm approaching some things I'm not sure how to process or handle.

I have young children who explore our woods and creekbed, as children are wont to do - including myself! They bring home treasures (stones, fall leaves, etc), and I am perfectly fine with that as long as they are not destructive in their "taking". My friend gasped in horror at this, especially once she knew that many of the stones were quartz. (We live on a large vein of quartz/rose quartz in granite, very common in our area). I view it as a lovely and positive thing they found such treasures that resounded with them, but my friend said we're disturbing and unrooting things that hold tremendous power I simply do not understand.  

I do appreciate my friend for some of what she's helped with, but these are moments where I do not feel apprehension of consequence or feel that any disrespect to the earth has occurred. I don't want to offend and want to be open to guidance, especially since I am newly practicing, and moreso if I am erring.

How do you all handle someone who IS a help, an encourager in the path, but also stirs a second guessing in intuition?
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Keller

Tana

Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 09:32:21 am »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434



First: rubbish. Your kids do not disturb anything.
Kids of all times picked up stuff and brought it home. Stones amongst the favorites.

Second: I see the problem.
I had friends who developed in totally different directions than my path went, finally we lost sight of each other. That happens.

If she is hindering you, you can first try to set boundaries.

But I have the feeling that this won't work with her.
The hidden (or not so hidden) statement, that she 'knows things' you don't, but doesn't bother to explain, places her with a certain type of people. They usually don't stop with the attempts to make you do as they do. And dare not to do any different, because different = wrong in that mindset.

But maybe I am wrong. Try it with boundaries first.
'Dear Friend, I don't think there is harm in picking up a stone, thanks for the warning, but there is no reason for it.' Or something like that.

Good luck.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4771
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 634
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 09:50:40 am »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434
My friend gasped in horror at this, especially once she knew that many of the stones were quartz.

 
Oh the horror!  Someone found an instance of the most common damn type of rock on the planet, more or less!  Whatever will we do, the sky is falling!

Honestly, if someone tried to pull this on me I would be completely incapable of taking them seriously.  They're trying to go all oogety-boogety and flip out because the kid found the rock equivalent of a blade of grass, because of its tremendous secret power?  I would just laaaaaaugh.  And maybe, if I was feeling generous afterwards, suggest that they read up a little about geology - or, hell, rock collecting - to get a grip on exactly how common quartz actually is.

Quote
How do you all handle someone who IS a help, an encourager in the path, but also stirs a second guessing in intuition?


Honestly, I would genuinely have a hard time treating someone displaying such ignorance as potentially helpful.  I knew more about rocks when I was in junior high school (my rock collection won a grand prize ribbon in the county fair!).  Something that ridiculous would call into question whether or not that person actually had anything of value to offer me, knowledge-wise, since what they were saying was so clearly unconnected from the physical reality in which quartz is common as dirt.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

HeartShadow

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2195
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
    • http://www.flamekeeping.org
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 10:01:45 am »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434


 
I've got to join the "friend is whackypants" category.

I've known a lot of people over the years freak out about normal things as *disrupting cosmic forces* or other *look at my knowledge* things.  It's easy to be all ooky-spooky about deep cosmic knowledge.

But - things get moved.  The biggest thing that humans do is rearrange our habitat to suit our needs.  That means moving rocks, clearing trees, building houses ... it IS what we do.  The idea that somehow making a CITY is okay but moving a rock less than a mile disturbs cosmic energy?  REALLY?

Sounds to me like your friend is trying to prove deep cosmic knowledge - and instead showing a big ol hole in the brainpan.  I'd doublecheck all her cosmic knowledge, honestly.  She might have gotten it all from the same place.

JovesChild

Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 10:21:33 am »
Quote from: Tana;74440
First: rubbish. Your kids do not disturb anything.
Kids of all times picked up stuff and brought it home. Stones amongst the favorites.

Second: I see the problem.
I had friends who developed in totally different directions than my path went, finally we lost sight of each other. That happens.

If she is hindering you, you can first try to set boundaries.

But I have the feeling that this won't work with her.
The hidden (or not so hidden) statement, that she 'knows things' you don't, but doesn't bother to explain, places her with a certain type of people. They usually don't stop with the attempts to make you do as they do. And dare not to do any different, because different = wrong in that mindset.

But maybe I am wrong. Try it with boundaries first.
'Dear Friend, I don't think there is harm in picking up a stone, thanks for the warning, but there is no reason for it.' Or something like that.

Good luck.

 
Thank you for your kind responses. I hope because this is a new happening, I may be able to nip it with boundaries as you suggested on what I think are nonissues. Yes, the rock collecting is utter sillliness and triggered me questioning everything else. (I too still have my rock collection... no fair ribbons for me though, bummer.) However, the underlying "I know nothing" issue is tricky simply because I am very honest to admit I know little of this world, its workings and my working in it. I don't claim to know the unknown because of my years of being used for "prophetic ministry" for ten years... I question myself moreso as a result of that actually.

I guess because she's my first pagan bestie I'm wanting to keep her around. She's been practicing for so long that I don't want to automatically lose my openess to potentially glean something worthy amidst the chaff. Yet at the same time now... I feel ever more guarded where I hoped little would be. (I has a disappoint. Boo.)
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Keller

Catherine

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 990
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 10:43:03 am »
Quote from: JovesChild;74447

I guess because she's my first pagan bestie I'm wanting to keep her around. She's been practicing for so long that I don't want to automatically lose my openess to potentially glean something worthy amidst the chaff. Yet at the same time now... I feel ever more guarded where I hoped little would be. (I has a disappoint. Boo.)

 
I think you can keep her around by setting those boundaries. If it were me, I'd tell her that though I value her opinion on many things, there will be times when we disagree. I would let her know that I need a little space to develop my own beliefs, opinions, and ways of doing things. I'd point out to her that there is no "one true pagan way" etc. If she's really your friend, she'll be okay with that. And maybe she'll be able to learn some things from you, too!

I came to TC after practicing for about 20 years and let me tell you, It was a real eye opener. I found out that many of the things I though I knew were utter rubbish! I've learned tons from folks here who were in diapers when I started on my path! So, just because she's got 20 years experience, doesn't make her an authority or mean that she can't still learn something new.

Good luck, it can kind of suck to have a know-it-all-friend who really... doesn't!

JovesChild

Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 10:54:40 am »
Quote from: Catherine;74449
I think you can keep her around by setting those boundaries. If it were me, I'd tell her that though I value her opinion on many things, there will be times when we disagree. I would let her know that I need a little space to develop my own beliefs, opinions, and ways of doing things. I'd point out to her that there is no "one true pagan way" etc. If she's really your friend, she'll be okay with that. And maybe she'll be able to learn some things from you, too!

I came to TC after practicing for about 20 years and let me tell you, It was a real eye opener. I found out that many of the things I though I knew were utter rubbish! I've learned tons from folks here who were in diapers when I started on my path! So, just because she's got 20 years experience, doesn't make her an authority or mean that she can't still learn something new.

Good luck, it can kind of suck to have a know-it-all-friend who really... doesn't!

 
Thank you! And you all are quite helpful - I do agree there's quite a bit here on TC that I can learn from. So awesome to have a place to not just learn and grow in my path but also get a daily dose of snark and tongue-in-cheek as well. ;) Now to tell my dear pagan-bestie, "Doll, just teach me about herbs..."
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Keller

Laveth

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 885
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 11:12:09 am »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434


How do you all handle someone who IS a help, an encourager in the path, but also stirs a second guessing in intuition?

 
Firstly, I want to say that I agree that your friend is pushing her 'knowledge' factor too far. And I agree with the previous posters about setting boundaries and how bringing home earthly treasures isn't a bad thing.

I just wanted to add a couple tidbits that may clear up where your friend might (note might) be coming from. Personally, I have a couple guidelines regarding removing stones/sticks/whatever from a natural location.

1. If you remove anything, thank the spirit of the location first and tell them what you intend to do with it. Leave a gift of your own to replace the item. I doubt this would work for kids, but it might be a similar belief as to what your friend is harping about.

2. If there are any big stones or objects in the area that seem to simply belong there, then they are probably important to the energy flow of that area and shouldn't be disturbed or removed. As for little quartz stones in a huge vein, that doesn't really apply unless you're taking a piece that could fulfill the role of an altar stone. :p

Just a couple of points, it's a pretty common understanding in my experience and it may shed some light on your friends' perspective. Although from what you've stated, she does sound to be a bit on the over-dramatic or potentially power-trip side of the equation.

Zophia

Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 12:09:59 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;74451
I just wanted to add a couple tidbits that may clear up where your friend might (note might) be coming from. Personally, I have a couple guidelines regarding removing stones/sticks/whatever from a natural location.

 
Do you know where these guidelines originated from?

RandallS

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10023
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 213
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 07:15:46 pm »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434
My friend gasped in horror at this, especially once she knew that many of the stones were quartz. (We live on a large vein of quartz/rose quartz in granite, very common in our area). I view it as a lovely and positive thing they found such treasures that resounded with them, but my friend said we're disturbing and unrooting things that hold tremendous power I simply do not understand.

:rolleye:: As Darkhawk said, quartz is one of the most common minerals on the planet (in the crust, at least). People have been picking it up and using it in many ways for thousands of years. If it truly had tremendous powers that were being disturbed by this, I think people would have noticed by now.

As other have suggested, setting some boundaries sounds like a good idea. Your children are unlikely to be damaging the ecosystem, let alone be messing with dangerous powers only your friend can understand.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Laveth

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 885
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 08:57:50 pm »
Quote from: Zophia;74464
Do you know where these guidelines originated from?

 
The guidelines I mentioned are from the way I was brought up, but I have read it in other references over the years in varying forms or another. Mostly those textbooks involve elemental communications and dragon/ley lines (I don't actually have my library anymore, so the titles are a little faded in memory).

NibbleKat

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 401
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://nibblekat.deviantart.com
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 03:10:31 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;74524
:rolleye:: As Darkhawk said, quartz is one of the most common minerals on the planet (in the crust, at least). People have been picking it up and using it in many ways for thousands of years. If it truly had tremendous powers that were being disturbed by this, I think people would have noticed by now.


My husband has been making way for another garden bed in our yard, and let me tell you, he's pulling up so much freakin' quartz that even I want to tear my hair out! We could literally build a wall around the little bed with everything that he's found.

It's so common that even our neighbor across the street was having trouble with it in his field, quite a ways away.  X_X
I do altar art, icons, and pagan art!
http://nibblekat.deviantart.com
Ask if you\'re interested.

JovesChild

Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 03:57:01 pm »
Quote from: NibbleKat;74610
We could literally build a wall around the little bed with everything that he's found.

 
On the plus side: That would be the sparkliest wall EVER.
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Keller

sassafras

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 30
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 05:43:35 pm »
Quote from: JovesChild;74434
So, I've only one IRL friend who is a practicing pagan for nearly 20 years now. She's been a tremendous touchpoint on taking my initial steps on this path, however I'm approaching some things I'm not sure how to process or handle.

I have young children who explore our woods and creekbed, as children are wont to do - including myself! They bring home treasures (stones, fall leaves, etc), and I am perfectly fine with that as long as they are not destructive in their "taking". My friend gasped in horror at this, especially once she knew that many of the stones were quartz. (We live on a large vein of quartz/rose quartz in granite, very common in our area). I view it as a lovely and positive thing they found such treasures that resounded with them, but my friend said we're disturbing and unrooting things that hold tremendous power I simply do not understand.  

I do appreciate my friend for some of what she's helped with, but these are moments where I do not feel apprehension of consequence or feel that any disrespect to the earth has occurred. I don't want to offend and want to be open to guidance, especially since I am newly practicing, and moreso if I am erring.

How do you all handle someone who IS a help, an encourager in the path, but also stirs a second guessing in intuition?

 
Stones get displaced from the environment they started off in all the time. There's no harm in it. If your friend was worried about your children picking flowers that are endangered species or something more along those lines, she would have a much more valid point.

I'd value her friendship still--it sounds like she does have some wisdom to offer you. I guess just take the rest with a grain of salt. Just cuz she's a little bit extreme about one opinion doesn't invalidate the rest of her advice. Trust your instincts, though.

NibbleKat

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 401
  • Attack: 100
    Defense: 100
    Attack Member
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://nibblekat.deviantart.com
Re: Hindering Help
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 05:55:24 pm »
Quote from: JovesChild;74613
On the plus side: That would be the sparkliest wall EVER.

 I wonder how your friend would respond if you said that maybe the universe wanted your kids to pick up rocks?
I do altar art, icons, and pagan art!
http://nibblekat.deviantart.com
Ask if you\'re interested.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
22 Replies
8848 Views
Last post August 22, 2013, 05:18:06 pm
by Riothamus12
4 Replies
1965 Views
Last post July 15, 2011, 09:00:58 pm
by Annie Roonie
1 Replies
962 Views
Last post August 29, 2011, 10:59:43 pm
by TabulaRasa
New and need help

Started by Sophay92 Introductions

12 Replies
1461 Views
Last post July 27, 2011, 03:09:46 pm
by acidrica
7 Replies
1604 Views
Last post September 01, 2011, 02:10:14 am
by Liadine (dragonflyeyes)

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 29
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Senior Staff:
Darkhawk

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall