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Author Topic: Racism in paganism  (Read 4273 times)

mandrina

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2013, 09:43:06 am »
Quote from: Sage;107372
Wait wait wait... I think I have the world's tiniest violin around here somewhere. Just let me find it.

 
No, I borrowed it play to my daughter.  Something about chores.  Back to the subject now while I finish reading the thread.
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Snowdrop

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2013, 01:59:52 pm »
Quote from: Humphrey;107384
I'm still stuck on "intellectual" being a bad thing.

 
Me too.  I find that insult hilarious because while it's true that "elitist liberal intellectual" is a stereotype (and ime not always an inaccurate one), if the reason why you dislike someone's views is because they're an intellectual, that does tend to imply that you know deep down that your own views don't stand up to scrutiny.

MadZealot

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2013, 05:15:41 pm »
Quote from: Humphrey;107384
I'm still stuck on "intellectual" being a bad thing.

 
Yeah.  People usually stoop to personal attacks when they've run out of meaningful argument.  At the same time they're showing their own limits, intellectual or otherwise.  
In that regard, throwing out 'intellectual' as an insult is a super special kind of epic fail.
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MattyG

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2013, 05:56:55 pm »
Quote from: Aeto;107385
If you want me gone, you have got your wish. I'm gone. I won't post on this forum again. Goodbye.

 
Dammit! I've been offline all day and now I've missed my opportunity to join in the racist mocking!

Sage

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2013, 06:39:19 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;107456
Dammit! I've been offline all day and now I've missed my opportunity to join in the racist mocking!

 
Please, go right ahead! I'm all for a racist mocking karma train. Choo choo!
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Enid

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2013, 08:28:57 pm »
Quote from: Neolewis85;107286
 But why do some pagans believe that paganism should be kept to the white community?

 
I want to get back to the original question, because I have a few first hand insights to folks who use Asatru as an excuse for racism. This not only includes Folkish groups, but also out and out white separatists/white nationalists.

For a long time, WN/WS believers used the Bible to claim their beliefs were correct. However, as folks started to move away from Christianity, they latched on to pagan beliefs. After all, the idea of the raiding, mighty viking was a draw to the motorcycle gangs of the 1970's (which is how modern Asatru was most openly incarnated.) It's since grown, though there are many "Odinist" folks who use it more as a political stance than a real religion.

I have seen more than one group go bad due to the influence of a single folkish member being introduced. One bad apple spoils the bunch can indeed be the case.

That being said, I am not opposed to folkish groups. That way I know exactly who not to associate with.


Also, I certainly believe that there has to be some sort of barrier bringing PoC into neo-paganism's broader communities. We have one PoC that regularly attends our local meetup. As a non-PoC, I can't really offer insights on how to fix it.
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Louisvillian

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2013, 02:43:40 am »
Quote from: thread
snip

Responding generally to the bulk of the thread, which saw Aeto's ideas opposed by most others. And for good reasons, his elucidation broke down and eventually demonstrated an ethnocentric mentality.
But, I still think he brought up a good point. Or a good surface argument, at least. In an ideal world, ethnicity doesn't matter and is no barrier to spiritual development and exploration. Certainly the people that got the ball rolling for Neopaganism in the 1960s believed this, and it has pervaded much of the movement with the exception of Folkish groups. From my experience, at least.
The first step to making a better world is practising your principles. If your principles are that ethnocentrism is wrong and ethnicity should not be a barrier to someone doing what they want to do, then it is a bit hypocritical to act like a group or groups is/are exempt from that principle based on their ethnicity.

I can completely understand, though, the points raised by Sage and others. I largely agree with them. The world isn't all rosy and our ideals aren't always practical. Real people were wronged in the past, and still are in the present. Pretending that things are already changed won't make those wrongs go away.

feriseeker

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Re: Racism in paganism
« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2013, 06:56:03 am »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;107355

Does that poor representation mean overt discrimination? No, I suspect not usually. But, in the same way as structural factors prevent many disabled Pagans from being fully involved in their local community, it may well be the case that structural factors apply here too. There may be indirect discrimination, for example.

we have a winner. :)
yes to the indirect discrimination. once, i went with my friends to an open ritual...and, most of my friends are non-white. it is something that i had never noticed before but, the rest of the pagans there were....how do i say this, not very comfortable? it wasnt direct, but, when my friends would always tell me as to how they would 'get a look' when going to open rituals on their own, i never understood what they meant by 'the look'.
but, for the sake of understanding, i kept my 6th sense open, and realized that this...indirect discrimination, discomfort does exist. it is sublte, but, it is there...even among the wiccan (supposedly open minded) community. it is a 'what are you doing here'? moment.
ive seen it on online forums too, pagans writing in a very prejudiced manner and nothing is done, on the other hand, insulting the lgbtq community causes a roar (which is good by the way, im a member of the lgbtq)
which tells me that the pagan community is no different than the stereotypical urban white middle class community, obviously.

and, although i understand that maybe, for the majority of white pagans, paganism is precious because of all of the things that have been lost, which may make white pagans very possessive and protective about paganism, the truth is that esp. in the Americas, most folks are product of western-european society, and mixed.
so, i can understand that a mulatto, black, latino, etc person may feel an attraction to euroamerican/european paganism. it makes perfect sense. it is part of their culture, after all.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 06:59:38 am by feriseeker »

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