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Author Topic: Information about Sabbats and Esbats  (Read 2793 times)

Jujulinda

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Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« on: September 01, 2011, 01:52:17 pm »
I know I can google things and what not but most of the information I find is scattered. I also would rather it be a book or a whole cohesive website. Plus I don't know what's good and what isn't out there yet.

Does anybody have any sources? That would be great, thank you.
Oh and any other books on other belief systems religious holidays would be cool too.

Micheál

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 03:05:52 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17164
I know I can google things and what not but most of the information I find is scattered. I also would rather it be a book or a whole cohesive website. Plus I don't know what's good and what isn't out there yet.

Does anybody have any sources? That would be great, thank you.
Oh and any other books on other belief systems religious holidays would be cool too.

A Witches Bible by the Farrars has background info on the Sabbats, being that it was compiled from their earlier Eight Sabbats for Witches. Besides the 4 greater Sabbats that bear the names of traditional Gaelic festivals, they are also loosely based around folklore, and another good pseudo-history for the influence would be Sir James Frazer's The Golden Bough.

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 06:15:12 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17164
I know I can google things and what not but most of the information I find is scattered. I also would rather it be a book or a whole cohesive website. Plus I don't know what's good and what isn't out there yet.

Does anybody have any sources? That would be great, thank you.
Oh and any other books on other belief systems religious holidays would be cool too.


The reason so much info is scattered is that it's really dependent on individual group/tradition/person practices - so that's why you hear sometimes very different things from different sources.

The Farrars give one approach, but it's one that's somewhat opaque to a lot of modern readers for various reasons. I've got a summary of the most common approaches out there (since I found that having them in separate lists helped me sort it out) on my website at http://gleewood.org/seeking/practices/sabbats/

Mike Nichols has a website (and a book) all about the Sabbats with lots of detailed information at http://www.witchessabbats.com/

Judy Harrow has two pages about Sabbats that are of interest: a general introduction, and then a page for the season between each Sabbat(since the Sabbats are a point in time that mark a much longer transition.) http://www.proteuscoven.org/proteus/sabbats.htm is the general intro, and the other links from there.
 
I'd also recommend, if you can lay hands on it, Ronald Hutton's _Stations of the Sun_, where he looks at folklore customs around particular holidays (including the Sabbats) and how recent or not they actually are.
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Jujulinda

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 07:35:09 pm »
Quote from: Micheál;17177
A Witches Bible by the Farrars has background info on the Sabbats, being that it was compiled from their earlier Eight Sabbats for Witches. Besides the 4 greater Sabbats that bear the names of traditional Gaelic festivals, they are also loosely based around folklore, and another good pseudo-history for the influence would be Sir James Frazer's The Golden Bough.

 
Quote from: Jenett;17210
The reason so much info is scattered is that it's really dependent on individual group/tradition/person practices - so that's why you hear sometimes very different things from different sources.


Thank you all. I figured it had something to do with the plethora of people celebrating and traditions. This is very helpful. My real problem was finding ones that weren't Wiccan based. Nothing against it but yeah...I'm not into Wicca.

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 08:01:40 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17227
Thank you all. I figured it had something to do with the plethora of people celebrating and traditions. This is very helpful. My real problem was finding ones that weren't Wiccan based. Nothing against it but yeah...I'm not into Wicca.

 
In that case, you probably want to start aiming at terms other than Sabbat and Esbat - most of the druid groups will use Sabbat, at least sometime, but other than that, you're looking at entirely different ritual cycles and holy days.
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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 11:56:21 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;17210
Judy Harrow has two pages about Sabbats that are of interest: a general introduction, and then a page for the season between each Sabbat(since the Sabbats are a point in time that mark a much longer transition.) http://www.proteuscoven.org/proteus/sabbats.htm is the general intro, and the other links from there.
 

It looks like Proteus Coven has let their domain name lapse (again - there's a lot of good stuff on their site, but it's a real crapshoot whether the site will be up when one gets there or not).

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 11:57:21 pm by SunflowerP »
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Micheál

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 02:26:05 am »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17227
Thank you all. I figured it had something to do with the plethora of people celebrating and traditions. This is very helpful. My real problem was finding ones that weren't Wiccan based. Nothing against it but yeah...I'm not into Wicca.
A friend of mine explains the Gaelic origins of the traditional festivals known in Wicca as the '4 Greater Sabbats', in Irish Witchcraft from an Irish Witch by Lora O'Brien. In it she will also define what Wicca is, what it isn't, and what Traditional Irish Witchcraft is(Which the book focuses on)

Jenett

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 06:38:51 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;17290
It looks like Proteus Coven has let their domain name lapse (again - there's a lot of good stuff on their site, but it's a real crapshoot whether the site will be up when one gets there or not).

Sunflower


Oh, argh. (I normally double check my links, but didn't last night: thanks for catching that) I do have some saved copies, but argh.
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Jujulinda

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 10:58:31 am »
Quote from: Jenett;17235
In that case, you probably want to start aiming at terms other than Sabbat and Esbat - most of the druid groups will use Sabbat, at least sometime, but other than that, you're looking at entirely different ritual cycles and holy days.

 Well, I'm looking in general and for myself specifically. I'm doing a project of correspondence lists. I'm making big layouts of different holidays (and associated holidays or holidays that are similar in nature) from around the world. Things that are associated with them; colors, smells, imagery, rituals done at the time. Different things like that. I guess I'm not for sure what I'm looking for. Just anything to do with Holy days around the world. I know some about some. But that's about it.

Quote from: Micheál;17324
A friend of mine explains the Gaelic origins of the traditional festivals known in Wicca as the '4 Greater Sabbats', in Irish Witchcraft from an Irish Witch by Lora O'Brien. In it she will also define what Wicca is, what it isn't, and what Traditional Irish Witchcraft is(Which the book focuses on)

 Thank you.

Quote from: Jenett;17342
Oh, argh. (I normally double check my links, but didn't last night: thanks for catching that) I do have some saved copies, but argh.

 Would you be able to send me a copy?

Melamphoros

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 04:48:46 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17381
Well, I'm looking in general and for myself specifically. I'm doing a project of correspondence lists. I'm making big layouts of different holidays (and associated holidays or holidays that are similar in nature) from around the world. Things that are associated with them; colors, smells, imagery, rituals done at the time. Different things like that. I guess I'm not for sure what I'm looking for. Just anything to do with Holy days around the world. I know some about some. But that's about it.

 
You would probably need to be careful about that -- particularly when it comes to trying to draw parallels between holidays from different parts of the world.


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Jenett

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2011, 06:24:01 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17381

 Would you be able to send me a copy?


Regrettably, not - I have a basic principle of not sharing stuff without permission (which includes 'it's no longer available in public for reasons I don't clearly know')

It's a "I have more integrity when I have my librarian hat on about copyright issues" thing for me if I'm consistent about that policy. One of those quirks.
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dragonfaerie

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 08:23:56 pm »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17164

The current guide at http://paganwiccan.about.com/ has a lot of good basic beginner info. While the site covers Wicca and various Pagan topics, the Sabbat information tends to skew towards "generic" eclectic Wicca. Having said that, I find useful tidbits there from time to time, especially when she posts articles about sabbat-themed crafts.

Karen
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 08:34:17 pm by Melamphoros »

Jujulinda

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2011, 08:34:57 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;17444
You would probably need to be careful about that -- particularly when it comes to trying to draw parallels between holidays from different parts of the world.

 
I know. I'm just making list for every culture and in that culture the different holidays. Then I'll file them by season and then look them over just to look and see if there are similarities. Just for curiosities sake. I know it doesn't mean there's always a connection there. I'm just doing it because it interests me.

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 06:52:22 am »
Quote from: Jujulinda;17711
I know. I'm just making list for every culture and in that culture the different holidays. Then I'll file them by season and then look them over just to look and see if there are similarities. Just for curiosities sake. I know it doesn't mean there's always a connection there. I'm just doing it because it interests me.


If it's a cross-cultural holiday approach you want, you might enjoy Pagan Every Day, by Barbara Ardinger. It's essentially a yearbook that draws on several traditions worldwide for its daily entries.
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Jujulinda

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Re: Information about Sabbats and Esbats
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 10:55:11 am »
Quote from: Jenett;17480
Regrettably, not - I have a basic principle of not sharing stuff without permission (which includes 'it's no longer available in public for reasons I don't clearly know')

It's a "I have more integrity when I have my librarian hat on about copyright issues" thing for me if I'm consistent about that policy. One of those quirks.

I understand.
 
Quote from: dragonfaerie;17529
The current guide at http://paganwiccan.about.com/ has a lot of good basic beginner info. While the site covers Wicca and various Pagan topics, the Sabbat information tends to skew towards "generic" eclectic Wicca. Having said that, I find useful tidbits there from time to time, especially when she posts articles about sabbat-themed crafts.

Karen

 I will check that out. Thanks.

Quote from: Chatelaine;17761
If it's a cross-cultural holiday approach you want, you might enjoy Pagan Every Day, by Barbara Ardinger. It's essentially a yearbook that draws on several traditions worldwide for its daily entries.

 Very cool. I'll have to add it to my wishlist.

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