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Author Topic: Elemental  (Read 2944 times)

Jenett

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 01:50:46 pm »
Quote from: millergrls;95087
Meaning that one certain item can have more than one element?

 
Most things do. People do. Books do. Burning incense does. The reason that some traditions use the four Platonic elements is that they are the essence of the world broken down to the most fundamental primeval element - but that's because most stuff in the world is more complicated than that.

(This is where I have been known to wax poetic about the lightning bolt from a stormy sky into the primeval sea, making life.)

The point of the four most basic is that from those four you can, somehow, make everything else. (If you subscribe to this idea, which I personally do.) They're also useful on a more meta level for balancing and sorting through different concepts. (Which is where elemental correspondences come in.)

On the latter, though, I usually refer to them as the Dewey Decimal system of magic: there are times when it's useful to 'shelve' a concept somewhere so you remember where you put it, but at the same time, lots of stuff could be 'shelved' more than one place. (A really awesomely affecting piece of music might be Air, in my system, for creative work and for music, which is carried in the air. But you could argue that it might be Water, for the flow of emotion.)

There isn't a need for a 'right' answer here, necessarily. However, consistency (for yourself, or for a group) is really helpful, because otherwise you forget where you put things, and it's harder to find them later, or to create a balanced set up when you want to do that.
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Altair

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 02:32:41 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;95097
Most things do [involve more than one element]. People do.


Dancing is a fine example, at least for me. It's mostly earth (a quintessential experience of the body), slightly less fire (the energy of the dance) and water (the emotions underlying the dance), and then air (my mind is analyzing the music, from rhythms to chord progressions, to decide how to respond with my body). And with truly ecstatic dancing, the fifth element, spirit, gets pulled in too.

Heh. I just realized--I said "quintessential."
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

millergrls

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 02:57:46 pm »
Quote from: Altair;95102
Dancing is a fine example, at least for me. It's mostly earth (a quintessential experience of the body), slightly less fire (the energy of the dance) and water (the emotions underlying the dance), and then air (my mind is analyzing the music, from rhythms to chord progressions, to decide how to respond with my body). And with truly ecstatic dancing, the fifth element, spirit, gets pulled in too.

Heh. I just realized--I said "quintessential."


lOVE IT!!!!!!!!
                                           The spirit in me salutes the spirit in you
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DancesWithHorses

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 04:57:28 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;95064
To group things into large, general categories doesn't work so well for me. Beach sand is not swamp muck. Lake Huron is not the Grand River. Neither is an ocean or a water puddle.

Do they each have their own spirit? Yes, I think they probably do.

 
Very similar to you. I also see it as a symbol set like Darkhawk stated.

I tried for a long time to see the Elements in the classical approach (or now to come to think of it Wiccan since that's probably what I was reading) but it never worked out well for me. I seem to prefer the more messy and cluttered "thing" (cannot think of the word I want to use here!).
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Frostfire

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2013, 10:57:16 am »
Quote from: millergrls;95054
How do you see elements.  Are they energies that you draw from and raise for your practice?  Or do you see them as not just energies to be raised but also entities in their own right that you can use in their own practice sort of they are their own beings.  For me they are seperate entities to be greatly respected because they will test you after you draw on them for energy to be sure that you are worthy.  I also think that there is a fifth element the aether, for me the spirit world is definately its own enetity.

 
I used to really commit to using the classic four elements system for my personal practice, Over time though I came to feel that though it wasn't wrong, it wasn't right for me. I suppose I look at it like this. On the surface level it is fine. First glance it seems to have everything in order. Water is connected to all other water, in a drop of water, the potential of all oceans or something like that.

using the elements in a broad sense, this is a great approach, but as I've meandered, wandered, and generally made my way down my path, I have found I recognize a larger distinction and variety than the basic breakdown can accomodate. For instance ,what about the natures of light and dark, not good and evil but actual light and darkness, do they not have their own individual natures and energies?

So while yes, water is water, at the same time rain is not the ocean, desert is not rain forest, frost is not a puddle, iron is not stone. When I am working, the correlation to all water or w.e. element i'm using that says, like calls to like, does allow me to work with less than ideal material or to use a small representation of a big thing. It is also important to me to recognize the unique qualities of all forms of the elements.

Thats all complicated by me being animistic-ish so each unique incarnation of an elemtent isn't just defined by its physical nature but by the spirit or life inside it, which may have varying levels of awareness/ conciousness and a unique personality.

Sometimes I might want to use external forces in a spell or ritual, othertimes I want to commune, othertimes I am seeking my own inner elements and am seeking help/guidance finding them and understanding them. I work with and use them constantly but how I see them or think of them is a very fluid adapting thing.

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