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Author Topic: Elemental  (Read 2373 times)

millergrls

Elemental
« on: February 04, 2013, 07:20:09 am »
How do you see elements.  Are they energies that you draw from and raise for your practice?  Or do you see them as not just energies to be raised but also entities in their own right that you can use in their own practice sort of they are their own beings.  For me they are seperate entities to be greatly respected because they will test you after you draw on them for energy to be sure that you are worthy.  I also think that there is a fifth element the aether, for me the spirit world is definately its own enetity.
                                           The spirit in me salutes the spirit in you
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Altair

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 07:27:57 am »
Quote from: millergrls;95054
How do you see elements


As mental, largely metaphorical tools that help me connect with the world around me. The correspondences all serve to help me access the different parts of myself and recognize them in others and in nature.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Darkhawk

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 08:55:48 am »
Quote from: millergrls;95054
How do you see elements.

 
A symbol-set I pretty much don't use anymore, in the case of the classical Greek ones, which appears to be what you're asking about?
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Fier

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 09:37:07 am »
Quote from: millergrls;95054
How do you see elements.

 
To group things into large, general categories doesn't work so well for me. Beach sand is not swamp muck. Lake Huron is not the Grand River. Neither is an ocean or a water puddle.

Do they each have their own spirit? Yes, I think they probably do.

millergrls

Re: Elemental
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 10:12:27 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;95064
To group things into large, general categories doesn't work so well for me. Beach sand is not swamp muck. Lake Huron is not the Grand River. Neither is an ocean or a water puddle.

Do they each have their own spirit? Yes, I think they probably do.


I feel this too.  I think they are their own entity in themselves.  Beautiful and powerful at the same time. Even in this crappy snow we are getting at the moment.:)
                                           The spirit in me salutes the spirit in you
                                                                Blessed Be
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Marilyn/Absentminded

Re: Elemental
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 10:18:23 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;95064
To group things into large, general categories doesn't work so well for me. Beach sand is not swamp muck. Lake Huron is not the Grand River. Neither is an ocean or a water puddle.


I'm exactly the opposite.  A drop of water is the primordial sea, a grain of sand is the lushest valley, a spark is a volcano.  
 
Then again, I work by representing in small what I want in large, so I have to see those broad connections in order to get anything done. :)

I also see a varying number of elements depending on what I'm doing - wood, metal, etc.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

Altair

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 11:11:31 am »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;95066
I'm exactly the opposite.  A drop of water is the primordial sea, a grain of sand is the lushest valley, a spark is a volcano.  
 


Well put. Same here.

That's largely what I understand the phrase "as above, so below" to mean: Patterns writ large in the universe repeat on a smaller scale.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

millergrls

Re: Elemental
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 11:12:59 am »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;95066
I'm exactly the opposite.  A drop of water is the primordial sea, a grain of sand is the lushest valley, a spark is a volcano.  
 
Then again, I work by representing in small what I want in large, so I have to see those broad connections in order to get anything done. :)

I also see a varying number of elements depending on what I'm doing - wood, metal, etc.

Absent


Sort of more like a hands on approach?:)
                                           The spirit in me salutes the spirit in you
                                                                Blessed Be
                                                                     Mary

Naomi J

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 11:28:52 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;95064
To group things into large, general categories doesn't work so well for me. Beach sand is not swamp muck. Lake Huron is not the Grand River. Neither is an ocean or a water puddle.

Do they each have their own spirit? Yes, I think they probably do.

 
I'm closer to your approach here. I suspect it's the animist thing, in my case. I tried very hard to work with OBOD's four element system, which (as far as I can see) is based on the Wiccan approach to the elements - but I can't see all earth as being 'just' earth when I approach mountain spirits very differently from tree spirits. These days I work with the three realms - land, sea and sky - as a kind of elemental system, but not quite. But I'm too distracted by the individual spirit of the river to be able to bring home river water and think of it as a representation of the sea. (I've tried.)
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- Doctor Who

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 12:08:09 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;95079
But I'm too distracted by the individual spirit of the river to be able to bring home river water and think of it as a representation of the sea. (I've tried.)

 
This.

I recognize the connection of everything, and see the potential for a drop of water to be either part of the sea or part of the river, but the sea and the river are each their own systems with very different personalities.

The problem I have had with the four element system is that it misses all those distinct personalities and varying qualities that different forms of a particular element type carry.

millergrls

Re: Elemental
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 12:21:09 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;95083
This.

I recognize the connection of everything, and see the potential for a drop of water to be either part of the sea or part of the river, but the sea and the river are each their own systems with very different personalities.

The problem I have had with the four element system is that it misses all those distinct personalities and varying qualities that different forms of a particular element type carry.

 
Meaning that one certain item can have more than one element?
                                           The spirit in me salutes the spirit in you
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Darkhawk

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 12:26:21 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;95079
But I'm too distracted by the individual spirit of the river to be able to bring home river water and think of it as a representation of the sea. (I've tried.)

 
Heh, my gut reaction to that is roughly "Of course that doesn't work.  Fresh is not salt."

They're both water, but those are completely different personalities of water.  (And the sea is not Water, the elemental spirit, so trying to treat, y'know, rivers and snow and clouds and stuff as manifestations of the sea is ... not right, symbol-level wise.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Jenett

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 12:30:32 pm »
Quote from: millergrls;95054
How do you see elements.  Are they energies that you draw from and raise for your practice?  Or do you see them as not just energies to be raised but also entities in their own right that you can use in their own practice sort of they are their own beings.  For me they are seperate entities to be greatly respected because they will test you after you draw on them for energy to be sure that you are worthy.  I also think that there is a fifth element the aether, for me the spirit world is definately its own enetity.


I work with the four Platonic elements as the building blocks for ritual (very much in the macrocosm/microcosm model discussed already).

The elementals and elemental rulers are entities that live in planes devoted to that element, and which may also come and assist. (That said, "Draw on them for energy?" Really really not something I'd do.)

The guardians of the elements are something other than the elemental rules, and have a very specific purpose and goal. Ask them to lend their energy/wisdom/understanding, yes, but again, draw directly on them, no.
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Naomi J

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 12:44:59 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;95090
Heh, my gut reaction to that is roughly "Of course that doesn't work.  Fresh is not salt."

They're both water, but those are completely different personalities of water.  (And the sea is not Water, the elemental spirit, so trying to treat, y'know, rivers and snow and clouds and stuff as manifestations of the sea is ... not right, symbol-level wise.)

 
But my difficulty is with the concept of Water as an elemental *spirit*. As a realm, sure. That's why that concept works better for me.
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Fier

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Re: Elemental
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 12:50:03 pm »
Quote from: millergrls;95087
Meaning that one certain item can have more than one element?

 
Certainly, depending on what the item is. Bodies of water,for example, have minerals dissolved or suspended in the water. Water is rarely just pure water.

I'm probably missing the point of the 4 element system. I've just never been able to connect with it.

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