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Author Topic: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?  (Read 4804 times)

Maponos

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2014, 07:42:32 pm »
Quote from: Wren;162047
Then reread my post.

That doesn't answer anything.

Quote
No, but having grown up around it and having Shinto and Buddhism integrated into my household from an early age does give me perspective.

I grew up around a heavily Christian population but I still don't a good perspective on it.

Quote
Then I suppose they must have been mistakenly enshrined.
 

I actually misread that one, so you're right there.


Quote
No, but you said "they truly haven't mixed with each other," and I was providing examples to the contrary.

When I said that, I meant they still kept their own perspectives, beliefs, etc that were unique to them. I never said they didn't borrow some traditions from each other. I think could have worded my sentence better, so sorry for the misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 07:43:12 pm by Maponos »

Tom

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2014, 07:56:44 pm »
Quote from: Maponos;162032
Yes, and there are Japanese people who do not worship/pray to them because they are not Japanese. There are various sects of Shinto that espouse a pure Shinto ideal (Shinto without foreign influences).

 
The key word here is sects. Would you say just a few sects of Christianity would represent the rest of the whole? Japan is a not a monolithic culture, unlike so many people would like to believe. There are different regions and cultures within the country. Just because there's sects that believe they are following a pure and untainted version of Shinto does not erase the fact that many others go to both Shinto shrines and Buddhist temples. Sometimes even on the same day. Occasionally you may even find them on the same grounds!

HeartShadow

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2014, 08:03:09 pm »
Quote from: Maponos;162044

What does technology have to do with religion/faith?

 
um .. what /doesn't/ it have to do with it?

the gods can be reached by those that never travel, celebrated by people thousands of miles apart in combined ceremony, shared with people never physically met.

Communication runs at speeds unheard of even 30 years ago and idea leads to idea to idea.  Knowledge grows, gods breathe, life changes.

My gods whisper through fiber optic cables as well as on the breeze.  They use what is in front of them and adapt to the changes as we do.  They are not static beings, nor should my worship of them follow a static path laid down by those that lived a different life.

Yes, many things are the same and untouched by time.  But many are different.  IMO, it cheapens the gods to claim they cannot change, cannot grow, cannot become more and different and adapt to the world now.

Static gods live in static worlds.  Living gods live in dynamic, changing worlds.

Maponos

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2014, 08:09:11 pm »
Quote from: Tom;162055
The key word here is sects. Would you say just a few sects of Christianity would represent the rest of the whole? Japan is a not a monolithic culture, unlike so many people would like to believe. There are different regions and cultures within the country. Just because there's sects that believe they are following a pure and untainted version of Shinto does not erase the fact that many others go to both Shinto shrines and Buddhist temples. Sometimes even on the same day. Occasionally you may even find them on the same grounds!

 
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, to be honest. I never even denied any of these things happened or espoused that Japan was a monolithic culture.

Quote from: HeartShadow;162058
um .. what /doesn't/ it have to do with it?

the gods can be reached by those that never travel, celebrated by people thousands of miles apart in combined ceremony, shared with people never physically met.

Communication runs at speeds unheard of even 30 years ago and idea leads to idea to idea.  Knowledge grows, gods breathe, life changes.

My gods whisper through fiber optic cables as well as on the breeze.  They use what is in front of them and adapt to the changes as we do.  They are not static beings, nor should my worship of them follow a static path laid down by those that lived a different life.

Yes, many things are the same and untouched by time.  But many are different.  IMO, it cheapens the gods to claim they cannot change, cannot grow, cannot become more and different and adapt to the world now.

Static gods live in static worlds.  Living gods live in dynamic, changing worlds.

 
You've completely lost me.

Redfaery

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2014, 06:33:38 am »
Quote from: Maponos;162032
That wasn't due to any religious feuds. That was entirely political.

....
 
Yes, and there are Japanese people who do not worship/pray to them because they are not Japanese. There are various sects of Shinto that espouse a pure Shinto ideal (Shinto without foreign influences).

 
Wow. Way to go. You missed my entire point, and you get bonus points for the way you're being such a jerk to Wren, who is actually of Japanese heritage.

The separation was entirely political, yes. Does that not strike you as a contradiction to your belief that the two faiths never mixed? They could only be separated because they had intergrown.

And as to your friends who don't worship the Shichi Fukujin...well, more power to them. But they are the exception rather than the norm. Certainly the shrine to Benzaiten (aka Sarasvati) in Inokashira Koen was always bustling with the folk who just decided to drop in when they were walking their dogs or having their morning jog, even at 7 a.m.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Oíche

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2014, 05:38:13 am »
Quote from: Redfaery;160403
That is incredibly insulting and condescending.

I was not arguing a point with you. Your facts are flat-out wrong. Buddhist doctrine consists of more than just the life story of the Buddha himself. The Mahayana school is non-dualistic. That is a FACT. It is not up for argument. Furthermore, not all Buddhist schools see Nirvana as the be-all, end-all of practice. Tendai emphasizes that all beings are capable of Buddhahood, as per the Lotus Sutra. That is also a FACT.

 
As someone who 'moonlights' as a Zen Buddhist, I agree with you.
That misinterpretation seems to me to be the way that that noble truth is commonly misinterpreted if I remember correctly?

Quote from: Maponos;162000
The ancient faith of the Celtic peoples and Hindu will have some similarities because the ancient Celts still had a form of the older faith (animism, basically) and you will notice the many similarities the animistic faiths in East Asia and the Indian subcontinent share very many similarities.


I'd just like to comment on that by saying that the 'Celtic peoples' were not a homogeneous group- faith would have varied from location to location seeing that what is seen in modern times as the 'Celtic world' stretched from Ireland as far over as modern Turkey. And even then, the term 'Celtic' is debated.

Quote from: Maponos;162000
That would be disrespectful to the Celtic traditions, if not done carefully. Look at how Shinto and Buddhism interacted and coexisted in Japan. They're still different and have their own beliefs but haven't truly mixed with each other.


Actually no, I practice Gaelic Polytheism and Zen side-by-side and have yet to see a conflict. My Zen practice and Gaelic practice don't interact at all because there's no reason for them to do so- and if they somehow did, I can't see a scenario in which it would be a problem.
And I agree with the other posters when they say that Shinto and Buddhism have integrated together well, that's what every Japanese person I've ever spoken to has told me (plus several of my friends have visited and lived there and they also said this).
'You're my friend, and I love you- but you really look like a witch!!'

MattyG

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2014, 03:09:17 am »
Quote from: Maponos;162000
That would be disrespectful to the Celtic traditions, if not done carefully. Look at how Shinto and Buddhism interacted and coexisted in Japan. They're still different and have their own beliefs but haven't truly mixed with each other.

 
Yeah . . . I'd like to see a source on that. I believe you have a fairly odd definition of "not truly mixing".

Gilbride

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2014, 08:19:57 am »
Quote from: MattyG;164542
Yeah . . . I'd like to see a source on that. I believe you have a fairly odd definition of "not truly mixing".


Fairly odd and entirely inaccurate. Shinto and Buddhism were thoroughly integrated for about 12 centuries. The movement to separate the two began in the 18th century as part of the effort to overthrow the shogunate and restore imperial rule, but it only really picked up steam in the 19th century so it's really pretty recent. Of course, after 12 centuries of syncretism no one really knew much about what pre-Buddhist Shinto was actually like, so they kind of made it up as they went along. You know, like Reconstructionism. :)

Gilbride

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2014, 08:23:36 am »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;160243
rejection of the world is non-pagan.

 
That's only true of some forms of neopaganism. Plotinus, the founder of pagan Neoplatonism, was said to hate having a body so much he refused have his portrait done.

MattyG

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2014, 02:12:30 pm »
Quote from: Cág;162191
Actually no, I practice Gaelic Polytheism and Zen side-by-side and have yet to see a conflict. My Zen practice and Gaelic practice don't interact at all because there's no reason for them to do so- and if they somehow did, I can't see a scenario in which it would be a problem.

 
I'm actually curious about this. I guess I have a few questions:

1) As a Gaelic polytheist, do you believe in reincarnation?

2) As a Zen Buddhist, are you trying to break the cycle of rebirth, or is there some other goal?

I've personally been hesitant to look too far into Buddhism as it does seem to contradict some of my own, personal beliefs related to my paganism. I don't really believe that it's possible or desirable to break the cycle of rebirth. I don't tend to believe that life is unsatisfactory either, but I'm not sure that that's as much a religious belief as a personal philosophy. I'm just wondering what you get out of following these individual religious paths.

Redfaery

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2014, 02:55:28 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;164547
Fairly odd and entirely inaccurate. Shinto and Buddhism were thoroughly integrated for about 12 centuries. The movement to separate the two began in the 18th century as part of the effort to overthrow the shogunate and restore imperial rule, but it only really picked up steam in the 19th century so it's really pretty recent. Of course, after 12 centuries of syncretism no one really knew much about what pre-Buddhist Shinto was actually like, so they kind of made it up as they went along. You know, like Reconstructionism. :)


The establishment of State Shinto has been compared to China's Cultural Revolution. It did irreparable harm to the established religious framework in Japan, and it's never really recovered.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Gilbride

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Re: Druidry vs Celtic Recon? What am I possibly?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2014, 04:07:23 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;164583
The establishment of State Shinto has been compared to China's Cultural Revolution. It did irreparable harm to the established religious framework in Japan, and it's never really recovered.


Yeah, I can see that. :(

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