collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut  (Read 883 times)

Hippie-Witch

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Eclectic Witch (Very Wiccan-based)
Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut
« on: April 12, 2016, 12:58:56 pm »
I feel a connection with Pan, Hecate and Diana which are Greek Gods and Goddesses. :(
This may seem like a simple thing to most people but it's leaving me confused.

I would love some insight from others who are more grounded in their faith <3
"There's a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point?"

HarpingHawke

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • *
  • Posts: 1531
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 15
    • View Profile
  • Religion: shapeshifting, witchery, polytheism. under endless construction.
  • Preferred Pronouns: ze/zir or they/them
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 01:19:13 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;189986
I feel a connection with Pan, Hecate and Diana which are Greek Gods and Goddesses. :(
This may seem like a simple thing to most people but it's leaving me confused.

I would love some insight from others who are more grounded in their faith <3

 
I've never heard of the Avalon Tradition, and a quick Google didn't turn up anything specific. Would you mind expanding on what that is?
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

Hippie-Witch

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Eclectic Witch (Very Wiccan-based)
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 01:31:03 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189988
I've never heard of the Avalon Tradition, and a quick Google didn't turn up anything specific. Would you mind expanding on what that is?

 
It depends exactly where you go or who you ask. :) (Kind of like a lot of spiritual paths)
Some only follow Welsh Goddesses, some follow all Celtic Gods and Goddesses. Some call themselves Druids, others do not.

http://www.sisterhoodofavalon.org/1-core-beliefs.htm

http://www.avalondruidorder.org/

It's essentially British/Celtic paganism. Some do magick and divination, others only worship. I have an interest in the magick and divination greatly.

I had an interest in becoming Wiccan for quite some time, however I got turned off of it due to the fact that a lot of people in Wiccan communities seem to fear the darker side of things. (Something I don't at all agree with. I embrace any and all darkness as an equal part to light.) There also seems to be a lot of bickering in Wiccan communities about who is and who isn't Wiccan. I was on one forum that said Wicca isnt a path based in nature, it's a path that worships fertility, and if you are not in a coven you can not be Wiccan. :(

Sorry, digressed a little there.
The point of that little rant was just to sort of illustrate the point that I am very much still learning where my arrow points.
"There's a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point?"

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3169
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 699
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 02:04:23 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;189989

It's essentially British/Celtic paganism. Some do magick and divination, others only worship. I have an interest in the magick and divination greatly.


So, the first thing to think about is that if you're following a particular tradition (a set of practices that fit together, quite possibly with specific training, rituals, and other experiences that are part of becoming part of that tradition) that may limit your time/energy to work with other deities, at least for a while.

I know that the Sisterhood of Avalon, for example, has a pretty involved training programme that involves specific training and ritual exercises, and doesn't necessarily leave a lot of time for other ritual practices while you're going through the training. (Once you're done is another question, and let me come back to that.)  

Some traditions also ask students to restrict interactions with other practices or deities during the core of their training.

Sometimes that's because it can be very confusing or problematic for learning the tradition's methods, or because the teachers take on commitments to the students during training and the student practicing things outside the training puts an unreasonable stress on that agreement. But a lot of times it's just 'only so many things fit into a day/weekend/life', just like many people who are doing intensive education in college or grad school may find they have less time/energy/focus for projects or reading outside their courses.

Quote

I had an interest in becoming Wiccan for quite some time, however I got turned off of it due to the fact that a lot of people in Wiccan communities seem to fear the darker side of things. (Something I don't at all agree with. I embrace any and all darkness as an equal part to light.) There also seems to be a lot of bickering in Wiccan communities about who is and who isn't Wiccan. I was on one forum that said Wicca isnt a path based in nature, it's a path that worships fertility, and if you are not in a coven you can not be Wiccan. :(


People use the term 'Wiccan' in a huge range of ways, and some of us (including me!) think this is really problematic, because it makes it really hard for people to find the information they're looking for.

Traditional initiatory Wicca is a specific set of practices, working with very specific deities (whose names are kept private within the tradition), and is focused on specific mysteries, ritual moments, etc. and in order to be Wiccan in those traditions, you have to experience the relevant initiation rituals among other things, usually after working quite closely with other people for a period of time. That's obviously going to be a very different sort of experience from someone who reads some books, and does things on their own, no matter *how* thorough they are.

You might find an article on my website about five different groupings of how people use the term Wiccan useful. I'd note that the traditional initiatory folk are generally *quite* aware of darkness as a counterbalance to light, and to polarity in multiple forms, but people who are doing "Wicca is anything I want it to be" are perhaps more likely to leave it out. (This is why people using the terms so many different ways can be so frustrating!) You might also find this essay useful in sorting out some pieces of it.

So, what does this mean for you?


If you think you might be interested in following a specific Avalon-focused path or tradition (even if you maybe aren't ready to do it right now or in the immediate future), I'd suggest focusing on that to start with. That isn't to say that you couldn't also explore the Greek deities you mentioned, but you're talking about an awful lot of deities in the mix.

One option would be to explore them individually, over time (focusing on one every month or two, in which you learn about that particular deity, do some very simple ritual where you basically say "Hi" and spend some time listening to that deity. (There's an essay on my site about a method for doing that, based on my own training).

This might lead you in some interesting directions - for example, Diana is generally seen as Roman, and Artemis as Greek, and some people see those two deities as very close (or possibly the same deity using different names at different times) and some people see them as very different.  

Likewise there's a lot of information about Hecate out there which insists she's a crone goddess, but that is completely not how she was see historically - in actual Greek sources, she's usually shown as much younger, and with some very specific attributes, interests, and goals.

People doing this kind of work often find (if they do it over a period of months) that some specific deities resonate very clearly for them, and others don't, but they also often get a lot more clarity about what to do about that. Some people decide to focus their practice on only one or two (or a small number) of deities. Some people decide to honour a particular pantheon, while having more personal devotion for a few deities in a pantheon. What you do is going to depend on your own experiences, your own available time/energy/religious bandwidth, so to speak.

(My big advice is to be *very* careful about adding commitments: make them short-term to start, and very specific. There's a very big difference in scope between "For the next two months, I promise to learn about you, your interests, and practices" and making a commitment for the rest of your life - or to be a priestess or priest of that deity for the rest of your life. Build up to the big ones over a period of years, like you would any other major commitment.)

If you decide after that initial 'getting to know' process that you want to pursue a particular tradition, you'll be in a better position to do so if you haven't made any major deity commitments. Alternately, you may find that that initial process helps you figure out you don't want an established path (or want a different one entirely), and you can go on from there.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Hippie-Witch

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Eclectic Witch (Very Wiccan-based)
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 04:30:04 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;189993
So, the first thing to think about is that if you're following a particular tradition (a set of practices that fit together, quite possibly with specific training, rituals, and other experiences that are part of becoming part of that tradition) that may limit your time/energy to work with other deities, at least for a while.

I know that the Sisterhood of Avalon, for example, has a pretty involved training programme that involves specific training and ritual exercises, and doesn't necessarily leave a lot of time for other ritual practices while you're going through the training. (Once you're done is another question, and let me come back to that.)  

Some traditions also ask students to restrict interactions with other practices or deities during the core of their training.

Sometimes that's because it can be very confusing or problematic for learning the tradition's methods, or because the teachers take on commitments to the students during training and the student practicing things outside the training puts an unreasonable stress on that agreement. But a lot of times it's just 'only so many things fit into a day/weekend/life', just like many people who are doing intensive education in college or grad school may find they have less time/energy/focus for projects or reading outside their courses.



People use the term 'Wiccan' in a huge range of ways, and some of us (including me!) think this is really problematic, because it makes it really hard for people to find the information they're looking for.

Traditional initiatory Wicca is a specific set of practices, working with very specific deities (whose names are kept private within the tradition), and is focused on specific mysteries, ritual moments, etc. and in order to be Wiccan in those traditions, you have to experience the relevant initiation rituals among other things, usually after working quite closely with other people for a period of time. That's obviously going to be a very different sort of experience from someone who reads some books, and does things on their own, no matter *how* thorough they are.

You might find an article on my website about five different groupings of how people use the term Wiccan useful. I'd note that the traditional initiatory folk are generally *quite* aware of darkness as a counterbalance to light, and to polarity in multiple forms, but people who are doing "Wicca is anything I want it to be" are perhaps more likely to leave it out. (This is why people using the terms so many different ways can be so frustrating!) You might also find this essay useful in sorting out some pieces of it.

So, what does this mean for you?


If you think you might be interested in following a specific Avalon-focused path or tradition (even if you maybe aren't ready to do it right now or in the immediate future), I'd suggest focusing on that to start with. That isn't to say that you couldn't also explore the Greek deities you mentioned, but you're talking about an awful lot of deities in the mix.

One option would be to explore them individually, over time (focusing on one every month or two, in which you learn about that particular deity, do some very simple ritual where you basically say "Hi" and spend some time listening to that deity. (There's an essay on my site about a method for doing that, based on my own training).

This might lead you in some interesting directions - for example, Diana is generally seen as Roman, and Artemis as Greek, and some people see those two deities as very close (or possibly the same deity using different names at different times) and some people see them as very different.  

Likewise there's a lot of information about Hecate out there which insists she's a crone goddess, but that is completely not how she was see historically - in actual Greek sources, she's usually shown as much younger, and with some very specific attributes, interests, and goals.

People doing this kind of work often find (if they do it over a period of months) that some specific deities resonate very clearly for them, and others don't, but they also often get a lot more clarity about what to do about that. Some people decide to focus their practice on only one or two (or a small number) of deities. Some people decide to honour a particular pantheon, while having more personal devotion for a few deities in a pantheon. What you do is going to depend on your own experiences, your own available time/energy/religious bandwidth, so to speak.

(My big advice is to be *very* careful about adding commitments: make them short-term to start, and very specific. There's a very big difference in scope between "For the next two months, I promise to learn about you, your interests, and practices" and making a commitment for the rest of your life - or to be a priestess or priest of that deity for the rest of your life. Build up to the big ones over a period of years, like you would any other major commitment.)

If you decide after that initial 'getting to know' process that you want to pursue a particular tradition, you'll be in a better position to do so if you haven't made any major deity commitments. Alternately, you may find that that initial process helps you figure out you don't want an established path (or want a different one entirely), and you can go on from there.

 
Thank you for such a well thought out response! I really needed some guidance and this really helped me put my thoughts in order.

Side note: Almost got hit by a Toyota AVALON today and then parked in a lot where the only other vehicle was for an appliances repair company that said CELTIC and had a bunch of imagery on its side. Not sure if that means anything; but kind of neat. :)
"There's a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point?"

Mewtini

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 37
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 05:58:57 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;189986
I feel a connection with Pan, Hecate and Diana which are Greek Gods and Goddesses. :(
This may seem like a simple thing to most people but it's leaving me confused.

I would love some insight from others who are more grounded in their faith <3

 
I'm not really sure if this helps too much, but I've often found that many pagan traditions have the tendency to connect with each other, especially when they're in similar parts of the world and had lots of interaction.  Hellenistic Romans conquered and lived among the Druidic pagans of Britain for centuries, so I think a certain amount of overlap could very well have developed in that time period.  Perhaps you have British Roman ancestors?  Or perhaps you have a strong connection to witchcraft, given your admiration for Hecate.

For the record, I'm not terribly grounded in my faith either.  I'm primarily a Slavic pagan, but I use Asatru rituals to fill in the gaps, and I've dabbled in Satanism at some point or another.  So I might not be the best source of advice.

Hippie-Witch

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Eclectic Witch (Very Wiccan-based)
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 12:27:22 pm »
Quote from: Mewtini;190005
I'm not really sure if this helps too much, but I've often found that many pagan traditions have the tendency to connect with each other, especially when they're in similar parts of the world and had lots of interaction.  Hellenistic Romans conquered and lived among the Druidic pagans of Britain for centuries, so I think a certain amount of overlap could very well have developed in that time period.  Perhaps you have British Roman ancestors?  Or perhaps you have a strong connection to witchcraft, given your admiration for Hecate.

For the record, I'm not terribly grounded in my faith either.  I'm primarily a Slavic pagan, but I use Asatru rituals to fill in the gaps, and I've dabbled in Satanism at some point or another.  So I might not be the best source of advice.

 
Thank you :)
No, that definitely makes a lot of sense! I have a theory that a lot of deities are the same energy given different names and faces depending on who they contacted/were contacted by.
"There's a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point?"

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 12:52:00 pm »
Quote from: Mewtini;190005
I'm not really sure if this helps too much, but I've often found that many pagan traditions have the tendency to connect with each other


It happens all the time, and not only pagan traditions, but most religions in general.

Mewtini

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 37
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Desire to follow the Avalon tradition buuut.....
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 02:35:31 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;190045
Thank you :)
No, that definitely makes a lot of sense! I have a theory that a lot of deities are the same energy given different names and faces depending on who they contacted/were contacted by.

 
I'm glad I could be of help! :o  I've always had similar ideas about the gods, except more in the form of thoughtforms that grew independent after enough people believed in them.  Many of these gods and goddesses are often just different aspects or personalities of each other.  Heck, it's why I have an easy time mixing Norse paganism with Slavic paganism.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
4557 Views
Last post December 25, 2011, 05:50:16 pm
by dragonfaerie
0 Replies
1789 Views
Last post May 19, 2013, 12:29:07 pm
by RandallS
21 Replies
3315 Views
Last post March 29, 2014, 07:01:23 pm
by SilverSpring
4 Replies
2817 Views
Last post October 24, 2014, 05:52:09 pm
by Elementalist
1 Replies
581 Views
Last post May 25, 2016, 10:12:19 am
by Jack

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 46
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 2
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall