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Author Topic: Deities you pray to and Patrons?  (Read 1983 times)

Kodi R.

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Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« on: January 06, 2013, 08:09:16 pm »
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know? What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?

I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means.

When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?

I'm a little afraid to ask...mostly because Hekate still intimidates me a bit, although I've been praying and getting braver. I have a little thing I say in my head for Her.

if anyone could answer these questions, I'd be thankful.

So far everyone here has been very helpful, so I'd really like to thank you all. I'm learning a lot.

:)

Rhyshadow

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 08:34:31 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know? What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?

I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means.

When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?

I'm a little afraid to ask...mostly because Hekate still intimidates me a bit, although I've been praying and getting braver. I have a little thing I say in my head for Her.

if anyone could answer these questions, I'd be thankful.

So far everyone here has been very helpful, so I'd really like to thank you all. I'm learning a lot.

:)

 
Wow - I'll try to put it in my experience.

Back when I was Wiccan - about sixteen years ago, I was in Ritual and calling the East Quarter. Our method included asking the blessing of an Aspect (remember, in most Wicca, the different deities are just facets of the God and Goddess)

Most of the times I usually called on Aeolis, but this time I called on Thor - and felt like Mjollnir rapped me upside the head.

That started my backslide from Wicca - here I had a 'big brother' who I KNEW to be distinct and separate from the others, but still that "All are one" thing rattled around

Well, I drifted from Wicca, explored Elementalism for a while then started studying Heathenry - till He decided that I needed another guide. He's the one who introduced me to Brighid, and everything clicked into place. I drifted from Heathenry into Gaelic Polytheism with Brighid leading and Thor being support

Then He decided that since my path was settling down that road, he should find someone else to fill his part - that's when Thor stepped back and Oghma stepped in

Brighid and Oghma are my Patrons - I don't so much worship them as put them in High Honor.

I work with others too; Airmed, Flidais, Mor Rioghain, Luchta - as well as Thor and Freyja at times (my 'twist')

I honor them all, have places for them all, but my main two command the altar, the others have small spots on shelves above that

I don't so much venerate them as work with them, I do things they ask me to and they help me with my own issues.

Trust me, Hecate and Mor Rioghain are two peas in a pod in ways - she scares me at times, but she's also loyal, protective and kicks me in the arse when I need it

Well, Brighid does too - all of them really. That's just it. The one's you work with will do that, whether they're Patrons or not. In my view you don't pick them, they pick you - for one reason or another.

For me, Brighid is working at her forge, trying to "pound me" into something better and if someone else would do this particular task of teaching me better, she's not above calling them in.

But I honor them all - they're my guides - sometimes the stern parent, sometimes the sympathetic one, sometimes just a very good friend.

Hope that helps a little - I know I rambled, but I get that way sometimes - especially with Oghma sitting at my shoulder prodding me :whis:

Kodi R.

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 08:46:05 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;89440
Wow - I'll try to put it in my experience.

Hope that helps a little - I know I rambled, but I get that way sometimes - especially with Oghma sitting at my shoulder prodding me :whis:

 
That did help a lot, actually. Thank you.

One question, how exactly would you know if a deity wants to work with you? Like, if it's that or something else?

For example, I had that dream, but I don't know what exactly if it means Hekate is interested in working with me?

As I said, I pray to Her sometimes, and I think I feel a presence there. When I think about her, I know I do. Sometimes at least...

I guess I'm just a little worried about being annoying and bugging deities that don't want to talk to me...

Rhyshadow

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 08:52:05 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89444
That did help a lot, actually. Thank you.

One question, how exactly would you know if a deity wants to work with you? Like, if it's that or something else?

For example, I had that dream, but I don't know what exactly if it means Hekate is interested in working with me?

As I said, I pray to Her sometimes, and I think I feel a presence there. When I think about her, I know I do. Sometimes at least...

I guess I'm just a little worried about being annoying and bugging deities that don't want to talk to me...

 
Dreams and feelings are sometimes all you have to go on - examine the dream, try to pull some sense from it - could be that she IS looking to work with you

May not be a Patron relationship, but like I said, I work with several who aren't my Patrons.

It may eventually settle into that - then again, you may never have a close Patron - everyone is different and They know that as well.

Do the honoring/praying/offering things and trust me - she'll let you know one way or the other

Nyktelios

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 08:57:43 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know? What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?

I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means.

When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?

I wouldn't worry about finding your "patron," as it really could mean different things to different people, depending on the path someone follows. Generally, if you feel a stronger connection to a certain deity, honour that deity primarily, and feel that that deity is more involved in your life than any other, then I would say he or she is your "patron deity," and many people have more than one. You could pray to any deity you want, but the one who is your primary focus of worship would be your patron, in my opinion. It's possible to pray to other deities and not have them be your patron deities.

A dream like the one you described could definitely mean Hekate is interested in you. It sounds to me like the dream was giving you the hint that you need to look into worshiping her. The dream you had does sound a lot like her, as I had an experience when I was first drawn to her that involved a pretty violent storm and a very intense feeling of her presence. I would research her and try simple acts of worship, and build up from there. It may lead to the kind of relationship in which she is your patroness, or you may find it doesn't work out. In some ways, relationships with deities can be similar to human relationships, depending on how you experience them.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:59:09 pm by Nyktelios »

Kodi R.

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 09:01:10 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;89445
Dreams and feelings are sometimes all you have to go on - examine the dream, try to pull some sense from it - could be that she IS looking to work with you

May not be a Patron relationship, but like I said, I work with several who aren't my Patrons.

It may eventually settle into that - then again, you may never have a close Patron - everyone is different and They know that as well.

Do the honoring/praying/offering things and trust me - she'll let you know one way or the other


Thank you. I Will!

Kodi R.

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 09:01:57 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;89446
I wouldn't worry about finding your "patron," as it really could mean different things to different people, depending on the path someone follows. Generally, if you feel a stronger connection to a certain deity, honour that deity primarily, and feel that that deity is more involved in your life than any other, then I would say he or she is your "patron deity," and many people have more than one. You could pray to any deity you want, but the one who is your primary focus of worship would be your patron, in my opinion. It's possible to pray to other deities and not have them be your patron deities.

A dream like the one you described could definitely mean Hekate is interested in you. It sounds to me like the dream was giving you the hint that you need to look into worshiping her. The dream you had does sound a lot like her, as I had an experience when I was first drawn to her that involved a pretty violent storm and a very intense feeling of her presence. I would research her and try simple acts of worship, and build up from there. It may lead to the kind of relationship in which she is your patroness, or you may find it doesn't work out. In some ways, relationships with deities can be similar to human relationships, depending on how you experience them.

 
Thank you.

:)

Maps

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 09:24:21 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know? What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?

I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means.

When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?

I'm a little afraid to ask...mostly because Hekate still intimidates me a bit, although I've been praying and getting braver. I have a little thing I say in my head for Her.

if anyone could answer these questions, I'd be thankful.

So far everyone here has been very helpful, so I'd really like to thank you all. I'm learning a lot.

:)

I have 5 deities I honor on a semi-regular basis, 4 of which I consider to be occupational patrons. That is, I do things that specifically fall under their jurisdiction so as a polytheist restricting myself to one "pantheon" it would be somewhat silly of me not to honor them and get their blessings/influence in return. The 5th one is a god that I have a very deep fascination with, and so I consider myself a devotee. I have had experiences with this deity before, but mistaking them for signs of a close "patronage" relationship (in the neo-pagan sense) would be akin to speaking to my house rep and claiming they were flirting with me the whole time.

Lots of people seem to have "patrons", but I kind of want to say that's because there's very little nuance in the wider dialogue of what deity-human relationships are and can be. There's way more out there than just "worshiper on a one-way street" and "super special follower with a sky BFF". Not that I'm begrudging of those that do have deep, meaningful relationships with their gods--I'm not--but there just seems to be this general lack of awareness of other possibilities coupled with the desire to have more "pagan street cred".
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 09:24:56 pm by Maps »

Shine

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 09:36:41 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity?


Not necessarily. Depends on the particular configuration of your path at the time.

Quote
Are there different levels of relationships with deities?


You can have relationships of various styles and depth with different deities. For example, my relationship with Ganesh is akin to teacher(guru?)/student while my relationship with Bast is more along the lines of parent/child and master/servant.

Quote
How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know?


It is one hundred percent okay not to know who your patron deity is, or even if you have one. (Not everyone does.) As to knowing if someone is your patron deity, that's something you figure out in time.

Quote
What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?


From what I understand, to be god-bothered or thwapped means to have the attention of one or more deities. Thwappage isn't necessarily common, but here at the Cauldron we seem to have a large percentage of people who have been thwapped.

Quote
I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means.

When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?


Sure. It could also just be a dream. You have to go with your gut instinct and your heart here. If both are screaming at you that this dream means something, then it's possible it does.

If you keep having dreams, seeing signs, or whatever, that may be Hekate trying to get your attention. And keep it. ;) At the very least, it's worth swallowing your fear and trying to approach her.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Naomi J

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Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 02:02:17 am »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?) Is it alright to not know? What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?

In my experience (which is not nearly as extensive as most people here), there are different types of deity relationship. There are some deities I only honour on certain days of the year or month, others whom I relate to solely as forces of nature, and others who have places on my deity shrine, or shrines of their own.

I wouldn't say I have a patron deity. And I'm not sure I'd count as 'thwapped' or god-bothered. Although it's all relative - I'm more god-bothered than the people on another forum I post at, who think deity relationships of any kind are extremely rare and don't seem to understand mine. I suspect that different traditions/religions (and cultural contexts - it's a UK forum) come into play here.

I think contact with deities happens at different times depending on the person, too. I belong to a 'Druidry coffee club' where we're all relative newbies. While talking to deities was the first thing I did when I was initially researching Paganism, some of the other members of the group are still working out how (and whether) to reach out to a deity. By the same token, they're all now much more experienced at things that I have completely failed to grasp. Everyone's different.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but it's my impression that everyone's relationships with deity are different. You may end up honouring several deities, one or two, or none. That's all fine (in my opinion).
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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Stone Onto Sand

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 11:40:50 am »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity? Are there different levels of relationships with deities? How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity?

 
I tend to pray to Odin especially when I was deployed as he is regarded as a god of war.
A soldier doesn\'t fight because he hates the enemy in front of him. He fights because he loves what he left behind.

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Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 12:46:19 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity?


A patron deity is a deity whose field of interest covers your work.  (In the case of a personal patron, it would be that the human is specifically doing the work of that god.)

A deity you pray to is a deity you pray to.

Quote
Are there different levels of relationships with deities?


Of course.  There are different levels of potential relationships with every entity in the universe; gods are not an exception.

Quote
How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity?


Is that deity someone in charge of what you do?

Quote
What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?


Lots and lots of homework.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Sanacrow

Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 01:04:09 pm »
Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is there a difference between a deity that you pray to and your patron deity?


Yes. Although there are some folks who don't deal with any other deity except the one(s) they're working for, it's feasible to pray to dozens (hundreds?) of deities.

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Are there different levels of relationships with deities?


Yes. Just like there are different kinds of relationships with other humans. You have folks you sorta recognize because you see regularly, but you don't share much beyond a "hi" in passing; you have folks you relate with because of proximity, like acquaintances at school or work; you have 'friends in passing' who you enjoy hanging with but they're not close friends; you have the friends that are not necessarily your besties but you can count on to help you move or stuff like that; you have your BFFs; and you have intensely intimate relationships like a long-term boy/girlfriend or a spouse.

It's possible to have deity relationships that are analogous to any of those. (And a lot more permutations, as well.)

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
How do you know if the deity you pray to is your patron deity? (Asking?)


Give it time. How do you know that your boy/girlfriend or is your boy/girlfriend? Even if you felt a spark when you first met them, it takes time and reciprocity for that relationship to form.

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
Is it alright to not know?


Of course. (Unless you've been thwapped. And if you have, you won't be wondering if that deity is interested in you. There won't be much question about that at all.)

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
What does it mean to be god-bothered or thwapped?


There are lots of different ideas of exactly what kind of relationship that means. For me, it's a deity relationship that is deep and intimate and insistent. It's not something you can walk away from without damage. Kinda like a close marriage in some ways. For some folks the relationship *is* like a marriage of sorts, for others it's more parental or even more like a feudal relationship.

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
I was thinking about the dream I had that featured Hekate (where I was standing in a storm and chanting her name, the storm passed over me and her name appeared in my mind in red capital letters) and I'm unsure what that means. When something like that happens, does it signify that a deity is interested in you?


Maybe. Possibly. If so, the only way of knowing exactly what kind of interest they have is a bit of research, a fair amount of attention, and (often) a lot of time.

Hekate has a lot of people she works directly with. She has other people she "grooms" for another relationship later. And (in keeping with her being a psychopomp), a lot of times she "sizes people up" and then introduces them to someone else that's a good fit for them (for long-term, or for short-term). Also, being a psychopomp, she can be one who's just more likely to see someone just starting out, and can sometimes just say "hi, new person" as you're passing by.

Which could it be? Dunno. Read some good stuff about Hecate (toss anything that says she's just a crone, or tries to put her in an MMC role), give her a bit of an honor here and there as you feel led (that reading can give you some good ideas for that), pay attention to your life and everything in it, and give it time. Maybe a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe longer. Study and improve yours skills and keep seeking. (Patience is hard, but a really good and important thing.) How she feels, and how you feel about her, it will get a lot clearer over time.

Quote from: Kodi R.;89431
I'm a little afraid to ask...mostly because Hekate still intimidates me a bit, although I've been praying and getting braver. I have a little thing I say in my head for Her.


Sounds like you've got a good start. =)

Fausta

Re: Deities you pray to and Patrons?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 05:52:02 am »
Quote from: Shine;89459
Thwappage isn't necessarily common, but here at the Cauldron we seem to have a large percentage of people who have been thwapped.


One reason for this could be that here the idea of very close human-deity relationship is considered not only quite possible, but normal by so many participants. Especially considering the general western world, where "when you speak to God it is religion, when God speaks to you it is mental instability". So, interacting in TC kind of environment can make one more open to perceive thwapping as such, instead of, say, wishful thinking.

(Just thinking out loud, carry on. :D )

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