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Author Topic: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets  (Read 2195 times)

Shine

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Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« on: September 25, 2012, 10:53:34 pm »
I'm asking this in the beginner board because it seems like such a newb question and I'm embarrassed I have to ask it, but, here goes. . .

So, the sockpuppets are those inner voices that are really just internal chatter that fills the silence in your brain. I think they've completely taken over mine. :(

It used to be I had pretty good communication with my gods via the "inner voices", usually at shrine. I'm not saying there wasn't some sockpuppetry going on, but it wasn't bad.

This has been a worry for some time for me. It came to its moment of crisis yesterday. Now I think that everything I hear must be sockpuppetry and so won't listen to the inner voices at all. I won't put words in the gods' mouths if I can help it.

Except that leaves me with no way to communicate with them. I suck at divination, I don't dream (the last dream I remember was over a year ago), and when I do dream, I don't have the ability to interpret it; I don't trance or meditate, either. I've had a few coincidences that were more than just coincidence, but that's it. All I'm left with is feelings. Feelings only go so far.

So what are some beginning steps for clueless newbs like me can take to communicate with the gods and not the sockpuppets? I don't know what I'm asking for exactly. Maybe some way to verify that I'm not pulling things out of thin air, or that I'm not following the lead of sockpuppets. That'd be a good start.

I looked over a thread in the Mystery Builders SIG about it, but frankly it reads like the talk of people who already have some idea of what they're doing.

Thanks, and sorry if this is an overly-newb question.
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mlr52

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 11:10:25 pm »
Quote from: Shine;75084


So what are some beginning steps for clueless newbs like me can take to communicate with the gods and not the sockpuppets? I don't know what I'm asking for exactly. Maybe some way to verify that I'm not pulling things out of thin air, or that I'm not following the lead of sockpuppets. That'd be a good start.



Try reaching out to others who communicate with the God(s) that you are trying to reach.  Let them know what kind of information you are receiving, and you concerns about it.  

Read the threads on this board, and the archive one.

If you care (and can) ask yourself (and answer) what is the cause of my perceived communication breakdown?
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Shine

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 12:30:26 am »
Quote from: mlr52;75085
Try reaching out to others who communicate with the God(s) that you are trying to reach.  Let them know what kind of information you are receiving, and you concerns about it.  

Read the threads on this board, and the archive one.

If you care (and can) ask yourself (and answer) what is the cause of my perceived communication breakdown?

 
Yeah, I'll keep reading. The archive board is a treasure trove of information. Could spend a year on there and only hit on half of the cool stuff.

Maybe trying to compare experiences with others will help.

I guess I started to worry that maybe the ratio between feel-good self-affirmational fluff and "actual communication" (no longer know what that means) was becoming alarmingly unbalanced.

Now that I think about it, I'm also starting to veer off the half-beaten track that is Kemeticism into my own kind of theology. It's something I have to construct based off divine input/inspiration, yet knowing my imagination, the only thing I can think of is I've gone off the rails into La La Land. If that makes sense.

Thank you for your suggestions.
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Laveth

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 01:23:52 am »
Quote from: Shine;75084
I'm asking this in the beginner board because it seems like such a newb question and I'm embarrassed I have to ask it, but, here goes. . .

So, the sockpuppets are those inner voices that are really just internal chatter that fills the silence in your brain. I think they've completely taken over mine. :(

It used to be I had pretty good communication with my gods via the "inner voices", usually at shrine. I'm not saying there wasn't some sockpuppetry going on, but it wasn't bad.

This has been a worry for some time for me. It came to its moment of crisis yesterday. Now I think that everything I hear must be sockpuppetry and so won't listen to the inner voices at all. I won't put words in the gods' mouths if I can help it.

Except that leaves me with no way to communicate with them. I suck at divination, I don't dream (the last dream I remember was over a year ago), and when I do dream, I don't have the ability to interpret it; I don't trance or meditate, either. I've had a few coincidences that were more than just coincidence, but that's it. All I'm left with is feelings. Feelings only go so far.

So what are some beginning steps for clueless newbs like me can take to communicate with the gods and not the sockpuppets? I don't know what I'm asking for exactly. Maybe some way to verify that I'm not pulling things out of thin air, or that I'm not following the lead of sockpuppets. That'd be a good start.

I looked over a thread in the Mystery Builders SIG about it, but frankly it reads like the talk of people who already have some idea of what they're doing.

Thanks, and sorry if this is an overly-newb question.


The obvious solution would be to start meditative practices. Is there a reason you don't meditate? Or at least try to? It can really help separate out your own thoughts from external messages, even if it just makes you aware of which ones are and aren't your own.

And there are no stupid questions. :)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 01:24:05 am by Laveth »

Faemon

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 05:54:42 am »
Quote from: Shine;75084
I'm asking this in the beginner board because it seems like such a newb question and I'm embarrassed I have to ask it, but, here goes. . .

So, the sockpuppets are those inner voices that are really just internal chatter that fills the silence in your brain. I think they've completely taken over mine. :(

It used to be I had pretty good communication with my gods via the "inner voices", usually at shrine. I'm not saying there wasn't some sockpuppetry going on, but it wasn't bad. This has been a worry for some time for me. It came to its moment of crisis yesterday. Now I think that everything I hear must be sockpuppetry and so won't listen to the inner voices at all. I won't put words in the gods' mouths if I can help it.

Except that leaves me with no way to communicate with them. I suck at divination, I don't dream (the last dream I remember was over a year ago), and when I do dream, I don't have the ability to interpret it; I don't trance or meditate, either. I've had a few coincidences that were more than just coincidence, but that's it. All I'm left with is feelings. Feelings only go so far.


I personally found it very helpful to have determined my own values, independent of faith. So, until your god starts to tell you to kidnap a child and sacrifice them to death up on some mountain altar and you start to do what they tell you... you're not going too far with your feelings.

Once you've got that, I'd then suggest keeping a journal of your inner voices and the synchronicities you notice, as detailed as you can, without holding back. Rather than shutting your feelings down, or nipping it in the bud because it's silly, I consider a private journal should be a safe place for silliness to be honored. Maybe some social filter would come up when you start sharing your experiences and asking around, and fair enough, I'd recommend recording other people's input too, in your journal-- as well as coincidences that are more than coincidences.

Once you've checked with the results of what you're being told, and some comparison with others who communicate with the same entities? Then, I think you'll be more likely to tease out the feelings that best match up to divine messages as opposed to mental sockpuppetry. By my experience, there will be a certain "other" quality to the information that you receive, that is not present when you're obviously just talking to yourself. You might take it as a smell, or a taste in the air, or an instinctive shift in mood gears like "I'm in formal holy mode right now." If your journal is detailed enough, you'll be able to catch that feeling on re-reads, like, "Hey, this is how I felt every time I was told something would happen that actually happened and this other Kemetic agreed that so-and-so god has that symbol."

I hope that helps!
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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 08:51:28 am »
Quote from: Shine;75084
...

 
I'm going to go in a slightly different direction.

You may never be able to verify that your internal chatter is (or isn't) deity driven; I have yet to learn of a sure-fire tested and proven (with repeatable results) method to do so.  However, you can learn to categorize the different messages within the communication and act (or not act) accordingly.

Here's something I wrote in another space that might be helpful:

Quote
So, yeah, voices in the head.  I’ve had to say, out loud to myself, that although I think I’ve distinguished what comes from my gods from what comes from my own grey matter, the truth is that I’ll never really know.  And, I have to be okay with that; there is no proof.  I need to look solely at the message and subsequent results of doing or not doing what is suggested.

In my own attempts to differentiate between my mental voice and those of my gods, here’s what I’ve learned:

- The following topics are likely my (capital- D) Depression speaking and should be rooted out and destroyed when possible:

  • Anything indicating I don't matter
  • Anything indicating that anyone or anything would be better off without me
  • Anything indicating I should do something that will result in harm to myself or others of the self-injury/assault variety
  • Anything indicating someone/something is out to get me
  • Anything indicating I am a super special singled out person with amazing gifts
  • Anything telling me to ignore a hurt, or a fear, because it will go away


- It is okay to make mistakes; they reinforce my humanity

- Not every voice in my head is from deity, BUT every voice in my head is Divine (see FlameKeeping)

- Intent counts immensely but is not the same as ends justifying means

- Ends don’t always justify means…but there are times when that’s okay

- Anything that makes me stronger was, in the end, worth it

Ultimately the sanity debate doesn’t really apply here…and that’s perfectly fine.
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Fier

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 09:27:49 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;75097

- Not every voice in my head is from deity, BUT every voice in my head is Divine (see FlameKeeping)

 
Oh! Topic idea!

*runs off the FK SIG*

Sulischild

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 09:42:18 am »
Quote from: Shine;75084
So what are some beginning steps for clueless newbs like me can take to communicate with the gods and not the sockpuppets? I don't know what I'm asking for exactly. Maybe some way to verify that I'm not pulling things out of thin air, or that I'm not following the lead of sockpuppets. That'd be a good start.

Seconding the recommendation of meditation, or journaling, or anything that helps you identify and separate the you from the not-you.

My mind's wired up a bit oddly, so I apologise in advance if this is useless...

Personally I can get some sort of an indication of whether I've got a genuine encounter or just my own imagination by the look and feel of what I get.  I can't actually create new images in my head, so when I try to do guided meditations and stuff like that, what I "see" is a mashup of things I've seen before in real life or on TV.  The forests are actual forests I've been to and so forth, so it all feels familiar - 'oh, that's the beach from Slade Point, and the angel's got the face of the TV weather guy'.

But if it's something more than that, I *do* get new images, and they tend to be brighter and more clearly defined than my own imaginings.  As you look around (or listen, or whatever sense works best for you) you're 'seeing' whatever it is for the first time.  It's like the difference between driving a familiar road when you're tired and have a dirty windscreen, versus a road trip across totally new country when you're bright and lively and ready for adventure.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 09:43:58 am by Sulischild »

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 11:16:44 am »
Quote from: Sulischild;75102

Personally I can get some sort of an indication of whether I've got a genuine encounter or just my own imagination by the look and feel of what I get.


This.

The deity stuff I get is generally in modes that I, as an individual, do not do well with. When it's actual deity content, I get very strong visuals, actual dreams (like the OP, I rarely remember dreams or even dreaming), or wording/phrasing that is entirely unlike my usual. Also spatial data that involves me interacting with the world.

When it's stuff inside my head, it sounds a lot more like me - and it's almost always verbal/musical/tactile data. (Though tactile data is also sometimes not-me.)

I also look at what it's telling me. The happy fuzzy stuff is.. ok, nice, but chances are, it's probably not M'Lady reassuring me. She's got other stuff on her to-do list. The more complicated stuff, that I've got complex responses to, is more likely not-me.
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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 05:28:52 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;75104
The deity stuff I get is generally in modes that I, as an individual, do not do well with. When it's actual deity content, I get very strong visuals, actual dreams (like the OP, I rarely remember dreams or even dreaming), or wording/phrasing that is entirely unlike my usual.

This. I generally don't remember my dreams at all or only remember tiny bits and pieces that make no sense. So when I remember a complete dream and it makes sense, I start to pay attention.
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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 08:23:26 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;75153
This. I generally don't remember my dreams at all or only remember tiny bits and pieces that make no sense. So when I remember a complete dream and it makes sense, I start to pay attention.

 
This sounds like me on those rare occasions I do remember dreams.

Anyway. . .

You've all given me some wonderful answers and things to think about. I'm still not entirely sure what to do, but it was definitely a good idea to make this post. Perhaps this is also a crisis of faith, of a kind.

Well, I'll keep working at it. Thanks.
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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 08:19:24 am »
Quote from: Shine;75169
You've all given me some wonderful answers and things to think about. I'm still not entirely sure what to do, but it was definitely a good idea to make this post. Perhaps this is also a crisis of faith, of a kind.

Here's some possibly more practical advice. Narrow the field of what you have to consider as possible deity interaction. If you have a lot of "inner chatter" you can probably eliminate at least 80 to 90% of it as "normal to you thoughts" if you consider things a bit. The rest certainly isn't all deity interaction, but at least you will have eliminated the more obvious "not deity voices" which should allow you to more carefully consider the reduced set of "inner voices" for possible deity communication.
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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 09:15:14 am »
Quote from: RandallS;75202
Here's some possibly more practical advice. Narrow the field of what you have to consider as possible deity interaction. If you have a lot of "inner chatter" you can probably eliminate at least 80 to 90% of it as "normal to you thoughts" if you consider things a bit. The rest certainly isn't all deity interaction, but at least you will have eliminated the more obvious "not deity voices" which should allow you to more carefully consider the reduced set of "inner voices" for possible deity communication.

 
That's pretty much what I've started to do (or am trying to do, given how noisy it is inside my skull). I think the most reliable communication is going to come from a quiet place while I'm sitting in front of shrine. Everything else gets a heavy filter on it.

Thanks. :)
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Maps

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 06:56:53 pm »
Quote from: Shine;75084



 
I have a lot of trouble with this too, which is why I've sort of just decided against trying to find meaning in everything I do and see. I can't really handle that, which is why I deliberately set aside time to be receptive. I get tiny blips on the radar, and I honestly wouldn't know how to deal with more than that if I ever got it.

But I do have problems with this stuff for a couple reasons:

1. I don't really have inner voices. I don't "hear" things inside my head, and I usually think in pictures, actual dialogue, or aloud. I get few concrete hunches.

2. I know that, if I let my guard down, I am extremely gullible, and very capable of deluding myself into believing all sorts of shit. This has screwed me over in the past, so I am a skeptic with myself first and foremost. I tend to ignore about 90% of the things I think because I just have to in order to stay sane, optimistic, and... myself.

3. Dreams have never been a reliable source of anything to me, so I discount them entirely in almost all matters. Unless they're horrible and I wake up wanting a stiff drink. Then I just go get myself a stiff drink.

So this is why I have a practice that relies heavily on action, movement, and physical, tangible results, because most of that I can't fake. This sometimes results in me feeling like I'm blowing really tiny happenings out of proportion, but I generally feel much better about it than listening to stuff going on in my own head and trying to extrapolate something from that. If there's any attempts at communication being directed at me, then... seriously, they gotta do it in a way that I can perceive. Otherwise, what? It's just how my brain's wired.

Shine

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Re: Communicating with the Gods and Not the Inner Sockpuppets
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 08:00:58 pm »
Quote from: Maps;75258
I have a lot of trouble with this too, which is why I've sort of just decided against trying to find meaning in everything I do and see. I can't really handle that, which is why I deliberately set aside time to be receptive. I get tiny blips on the radar, and I honestly wouldn't know how to deal with more than that if I ever got it.


Those quiet times set aside for this kind of stuff does seem to help. I'm only about two days into it and the difference is . . . subtle. Noticeable, but subtle. It might become more pronounced later.

Quote

So this is why I have a practice that relies heavily on action, movement, and physical, tangible results, because most of that I can't fake. This sometimes results in me feeling like I'm blowing really tiny happenings out of proportion, but I generally feel much better about it than listening to stuff going on in my own head and trying to extrapolate something from that. If there's any attempts at communication being directed at me, then... seriously, they gotta do it in a way that I can perceive. Otherwise, what? It's just how my brain's wired.

 
This sounds like a terrific way of doing things, actually.

I guess what it boils down to is that a lot of this religious stuff is faith. Plain and simple. And maybe the more you do physical, concrete things related to that faith, the more grounded it feels.
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