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Author Topic: Athame and their uses  (Read 3235 times)

blackwolf696

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Athame and their uses
« on: July 13, 2012, 01:40:37 pm »
just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?
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Elani Temperance

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Athame and their uses
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 02:54:46 pm »
In most (if not all) Traditions that make use of an Athame, the Athame is considered a ritual knife used to direct energy. The only cutting it does, is insubstantial; cutting through the Veil, for example.

An Athame is usually a dull dagger-like blade. Most, if not all, Traditions require the blade that is used is never and will never come into contact with blood or used in a negative manner. So no, self-defense is usually out.
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Melamphoros

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 02:57:16 pm »
Quote from: Elani Temperance;64029
In most (if not all) Traditions that make use of an Athame, the Athame is considered a ritual knife used to direct energy. The only cutting it does, is insubstantial; cutting through the Veil, for example.

An Athame is usually a dull dagger-like blade. Most, if not all, Traditions require the blade that is used is never and will never come into contact with blood or used in a negative manner. So no, self-defense is usually out.

 
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Elani Temperance

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Athame and their uses
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 02:58:31 pm »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64023
just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?

I'm sorry, something went wrong there with Tapatalk. I *had* quoted but I don't think it showed up. As I'm on my mobile, I can't fix it. My apologies.
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Nachtigall

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 03:27:08 pm »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64023
just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?

 
If you athame is the best tool available to you, when you are in need of self defense, of course, you can - and should! - use it. But considering it is usually a dulled knife, it probably wouldn't be very effective.

blackwolf696

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 06:13:40 pm »
Quote from: Nachtigall;64032
If you athame is the best tool available to you, when you are in need of self defense, of course, you can - and should! - use it. But considering it is usually a dulled knife, it probably wouldn't be very effective.

 
so the gods wouldnt be upset if my athame is also used to protect me incase of someone breaking into my home or (i dont know how i did this but i did somehow once) incase i attract an unwanted Entity who means me harm? if so thats cool then. i ask the celtic gods to bless or something along the lines of my athame so incase i need to use it for self defense against the known or unknown i can without worry.
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Darkhawk

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 06:43:13 pm »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64023
just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?

 
It's a knife.  It gets used for knife things.

One of the founders of the tradition I am training in was known for using hers to chop vegetables, and being Very Disappointed in people who thought there was some sort of problem with that.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 07:12:39 pm »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64023
just wondering what exactly are all the uses of them are. rituals, and what else? can they be used in self defense and such?


I think from an ethical position it would really depend upon what your own practices and thoughs on it are.  If you follow some of the more traditional and lineaged practices an Athame is forbidden to be used for any physical cutting or tearing.  For other practices its just a knife and is expected to be used as such.

I do not use an Athame at all.  Yet a Knife is part of my practice and used to sacrifice and make offerings to the devinities of my pathway when I process a kill.  Seeing as how I view all things as possessing life and spirit its not just animal that gets skinned or cleaned.  

Yet it's presence always reminds me of the sacrifice each kingdom has made and the thanks I make unto thier spirits for what they have provided me.

blackwolf696

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 07:25:16 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;64076
I think from an ethical position it would really depend upon what your own practices and thoughs on it are.  If you follow some of the more traditional and lineaged practices an Athame is forbidden to be used for any physical cutting or tearing.  For other practices its just a knife and is expected to be used as such.

I do not use an Athame at all.  Yet a Knife is part of my practice and used to sacrifice and make offerings to the devinities of my pathway when I process a kill.  Seeing as how I view all things as possessing life and spirit its not just animal that gets skinned or cleaned.  

Yet it's presence always reminds me of the sacrifice each kingdom has made and the thanks I make unto thier spirits for what they have provided me.

 
well i try to be as traditional as possible, aside from anything thats actually not accepted like sacrificing an animal or human. im a follower of the celtic gods, i usually pray to Manannan Mac Lir. when ever i pray to him i lay the Athame in front of the alter (more out of respect). i pour the water in my liberation dish (a silver bowl) over the athame (Manannan is a god of many things. 1 of which is the ocean. so the water symbolizes him washing over the athame to "bless" it in a way).
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Aster Breo

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Athame and their uses
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 05:36:37 am »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64078
well i try to be as traditional as possible, aside from anything thats actually not accepted like sacrificing an animal or human. im a follower of the celtic gods, i usually pray to Manannan Mac Lir.

When you describe yourself as "traditional", what do you mean?  That is, what tradition(s) do you follow?

I'm asking because that will likely help you decide how to use and not use a ritual knife and whether you actually need one.

IIRC, athames are usually tools used in Wicca and other kinds of witchcraft, and not so much in other paths -- although other paths may use ritual knives that are called by other names.  You mention following the Celtic gods, but not whether you are on a witchcraft path or something more like Druidry or Celtic recon.  Or both witchcraft AND another path.

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Vale

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 10:05:04 am »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64066
so the gods wouldnt be upset if my athame is also used to protect me incase of someone breaking into my home or (i dont know how i did this but i did somehow once) incase i attract an unwanted Entity who means me harm? if so thats cool then. i ask the celtic gods to bless or something along the lines of my athame so incase i need to use it for self defense against the known or unknown i can without worry.

 
Mine is razor sharp - I've never personally seen the point of a blunt knife. I'd have no qualms in using it in self defense if I was attacked. It is a bit of a moot point though. By the time I had removed it from its storage box ( I don't leave it lying around) it would probably be too late.

I'm not sure how much use it would be against a discarnate attacker though.

Catherine

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 10:59:38 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;64068
It's a knife.  It gets used for knife things.

 
This is how I feel about it, too. I use my knife for cutting and chopping herbs, carving candles, and other things that require a sharp, pointy object.

I don't use it to direct energy. That's doesn't work for me. I use a wand for that.

blackwolf696

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2012, 11:23:21 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;64120
When you describe yourself as "traditional", what do you mean?  That is, what tradition(s) do you follow?

I'm asking because that will likely help you decide how to use and not use a ritual knife and whether you actually need one.

IIRC, athames are usually tools used in Wicca and other kinds of witchcraft, and not so much in other paths -- although other paths may use ritual knives that are called by other names.  You mention following the Celtic gods, but not whether you are on a witchcraft path or something more like Druidry or Celtic recon.  Or both witchcraft AND another path.

~ Aster

 
well i guess u could say celtic recon. i learn what i can about the celtic gods, their teachings and when im ready ill attempt stuff like basic candle rituals. i am fascinated with what the celts believed in (religion wise), and at their ways of life prior to Christianity destroying most of their culture. i like to study what they did for rituals, what they looked like, what they wore to battle, what did they live in back in their tribes ECT. so basically i am interested in not only their form of paganism but the history/anthropology of these people. also my family roots started in pre-christian ireland so i feel some connection to it.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 11:43:13 am »
Quote from: blackwolf696;64143
well i guess u could say celtic recon. i learn what i can about the celtic gods, their teachings and when im ready ill attempt stuff like basic candle rituals. i am fascinated with what the celts believed in (religion wise), and at their ways of life prior to Christianity destroying most of their culture. i like to study what they did for rituals, what they looked like, what they wore to battle, what did they live in back in their tribes ECT. so basically i am interested in not only their form of paganism but the history/anthropology of these people. also my family roots started in pre-christian ireland so i feel some connection to it.


Since there is so little actually written about any Celtic lands except the Irish how can you say they were destroyed by Christianity?  Even religion wise there is no universal Celtic religion as it was a society that had many different influences and practices.  Realistically you can't even say a Celtic Pantheon as some gods / goddesses were unique to given areas yet not the whole of what is defined as Celtic lands or peoples.

In some ways it is equatable to the Native Americans and the various nations and tribes that made it up.  As such there is no Native American Pantheon as the practices, beliefs and divinities of each are unique to the nation / tribe and in some ways the very family groups.

Though I have to ask if your looking at Celtic Rec why would you use an Athame?  From what little I recall of Celtic things and the Druid influences i'd think a Sickle type intrustment would be better.  Seem's I recall a sickle being used to harvest mistle-toe .  Of course that is just my opinion so may not align with your perspective.

blackwolf696

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Re: Athame and their uses
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 12:02:33 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;64145
Since there is so little actually written about any Celtic lands except the Irish how can you say they were destroyed by Christianity?  Even religion wise there is no universal Celtic religion as it was a society that had many different influences and practices.  Realistically you can't even say a Celtic Pantheon as some gods / goddesses were unique to given areas yet not the whole of what is defined as Celtic lands or peoples.

In some ways it is equatable to the Native Americans and the various nations and tribes that made it up.  As such there is no Native American Pantheon as the practices, beliefs and divinities of each are unique to the nation / tribe and in some ways the very family groups.

Though I have to ask if your looking at Celtic Rec why would you use an Athame?  From what little I recall of Celtic things and the Druid influences i'd think a Sickle type intrustment would be better.  Seem's I recall a sickle being used to harvest mistle-toe .  Of course that is just my opinion so may not align with your perspective.

 
iv only read in modern day paganism athames are used mainly in rituals. but thats why i was trying to ask if the gods would get pissed if one of their followers had to use it in self defense either in defense against someone like a thug or (if they could see them) a rather unfriendly entity. so far tho people have said the athame should never draw blood but nobody has said if its ok if the athame could be saved by using sea salt and any other methods of cleansing it.

as for the history thing i just kinda go off how christians were long ago. they used to be "believe what i believe or i will kill you". which is why i said they may have destroyed the pre christian culture because it was different from theirs and to them at the time if it was different it was considered a sin for some reason.
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