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Author Topic: General/Non-Specific: Angry at Deity...  (Read 884 times)

rous54

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Angry at Deity...
« on: July 02, 2018, 01:13:09 pm »
I might have posted about something similar to this before, but I was wondering how you deal with being angry at a deity?

I am going through a tough time dealing with things and it is also affecting a health problem I have so I am really upset that I feel somehow abandoned by the Goddess.  Sometimes I am in so much pain that lash out at Her.

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 06:02:49 pm »
I might have posted about something similar to this before, but I was wondering how you deal with being angry at a deity?

I am going through a tough time dealing with things and it is also affecting a health problem I have so I am really upset that I feel somehow abandoned by the Goddess.  Sometimes I am in so much pain that lash out at Her.

One of the advantages of polytheism is that you can be angry at the gods without automatically being wrong. Not that this will necessarily protect you from any consequences.

I'm not sure if my advice can help you, its based on Mesoamerican logic, but you do have a few options. Your first step might be a cleansing ritual, just in case the problem is that some transgression is blocking your connection to your goddess. Another thing you can do is stage an especially lavish festival. I know that this sounds counter intuitive, but it can be used to remind the deity that they have a reciprocal duty to you. Alternatively, you can turn to another god for support. Although, you have to be careful which god you ask. If that fails, you can talk directly to them, call them out, and seal away their altar space for a time.

If you need something more extreme, you could try punishing the deity, by breaking your altar's sacred space, removing offerings etc. If the deity's actions are particularly heinous, you can even arrest them. Maya communities are know to do this. Lastly, you can completely break your connection with the divinity, breaking any idols, and destroying/rededicating their offerings to others. However, I don't recommend these last two, as they are a little extreme and are usually reserved for the aftermath of a natural disaster.

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 08:05:07 pm »
One of the advantages of polytheism is that you can be angry at the gods without automatically being wrong. Not that this will necessarily protect you from any consequences.

I'm not sure if my advice can help you, its based on Mesoamerican logic, but you do have a few options. Your first step might be a cleansing ritual, just in case the problem is that some transgression is blocking your connection to your goddess. Another thing you can do is stage an especially lavish festival. I know that this sounds counter intuitive, but it can be used to remind the deity that they have a reciprocal duty to you. Alternatively, you can turn to another god for support. Although, you have to be careful which god you ask. If that fails, you can talk directly to them, call them out, and seal away their altar space for a time.

If you need something more extreme, you could try punishing the deity, by breaking your altar's sacred space, removing offerings etc. If the deity's actions are particularly heinous, you can even arrest them. Maya communities are know to do this. Lastly, you can completely break your connection with the divinity, breaking any idols, and destroying/rededicating their offerings to others. However, I don't recommend these last two, as they are a little extreme and are usually reserved for the aftermath of a natural disaster.

Very interesting!

You might also consider that the goddess may not have been able to do what you asked for and may not be at fault.
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 09:16:49 pm »
I might have posted about something similar to this before, but I was wondering how you deal with being angry at a deity?

I am going through a tough time dealing with things and it is also affecting a health problem I have so I am really upset that I feel somehow abandoned by the Goddess.  Sometimes I am in so much pain that lash out at Her.

You have my deepest sympathies. I've been there myself.

A combination of things helped me to get through the feelings of anger and abandonment, but not all of them were directly related to my deity.

The first was finding some ways to cope with the physical pain - staying ahead of the pain with medications, deep breathing exercises to focus on something other than the pain, and guided meditations/hypnosis for on pain management. 

Getting on top of the physical pain helped give me the head space to actually process the anger and emotional pain.  Again, I used some different methods to do this - talking to a trusted friend, using guided meditations (one for PTSD actually helped a lot, more so than the ones directly addressing anger), and finding ways to direct the energy into something constructive when I was particularly angry or upset (I crocheted a lot of chemo caps to donate to the cancer centers where I'm a patient).

Talking to/at my goddess also helped a lot. Not in ritual or prayer, but simply talking to her in my head (astral space, mind-palace, or whatever concept you prefer). She'll allow me to vent at her as long as I'm not overly rude (e.g., "Why the f--k are you doing this to me?" is okay; "F--k you for doing this to me" is definitely not). Sometimes, she'll respond, but just getting the words out helped more than any response she might have given. Not all deities are so permissive about being ranted at, so knowing your deity is important if you choose this approach.

Also...and this was the hardest part... I had to come to an understanding that being devoted to a deity does not exempt me from going through normal human experiences like pain, illness, and grief.  It is not my deity's job to protect me from life.   She might provide solace, put people in my path who can help, and point me in the direction I need to go, but she is not going to prevent the human stuff from happening.   
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 11:01:07 pm »
I might have posted about something similar to this before, but I was wondering how you deal with being angry at a deity?

I am going through a tough time dealing with things and it is also affecting a health problem I have so I am really upset that I feel somehow abandoned by the Goddess.  Sometimes I am in so much pain that lash out at Her.

If you want my advice, then I say get over yourself.  Stop blaming gods for your problems.  Start controlling your emotions better and go reconnect with your goddess.  If you are willing to betray or abandon your gods in times of distress then I don’t know what to tell you.






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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 06:51:28 am »
If you want my advice, then I say get over yourself.  Stop blaming gods for your problems.  Start controlling your emotions better and go reconnect with your goddess.  If you are willing to betray or abandon your gods in times of distress then I don’t know what to tell you.

I think you are assuming a lot here and therefore your reply isn't really very helpful. First, being angry at gods is a perfectly normal human thing. Deities are used to it since they have to deal with us humans. Second, being angry at someone isn't the same thing as blaming them for one's problems. Third, people in a great deal of pain often lash out at others -- whether they deserve it or not. Telling them to get over themselves shows a lack of understanding of the effects of high levels of pain and a total lack of empathy for their very real physical issues. Finally, where do you get this "betray or abandon your gods" bit? The OP mentioned anger and lashing out -- not abandoning, let alone betraying. The advice you gave has little or nothing to do with the OP's question because you seem to have misread her post based on your own assumptions.
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rous54

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 02:11:59 pm »
First, as I have mentioned before, I really love the eCauldron community.  I feel well when I hear back from you guys.

Before responding individually, I want to mention that after posting my post I felt a warm feeling towards the Goddess and I felt that I cannot be angry at her  ;D. I don't know if the venting helped or I was feeling better but I somehow felt ridiculous that I am angry at her.  This doesn't mean that I was not angry and maybe I will have similar feelings again, but things felt a little better.

Another thing you can do is stage an especially lavish festival. I know that this sounds counter intuitive, but it can be used to remind the deity that they have a reciprocal duty to you. Alternatively, you can turn to another god for support. Although, you have to be careful which god you ask. If that fails, you can talk directly to them, call them out, and seal away their altar space for a time.

If you need something more extreme, you could try punishing the deity, by breaking your altar's sacred space, removing offerings etc. If the deity's actions are particularly heinous, you can even arrest them. Maya communities are know to do this. Lastly, you can completely break your connection with the divinity, breaking any idols, and destroying/rededicating their offerings to others. However, I don't recommend these last two, as they are a little extreme and are usually reserved for the aftermath of a natural disaster.

Thank you for this very resourceful post.  I never knew that people went through elaborate rituals concerning their relationship to deity.  I have been brought up under the illusion that we obey God (the deity of my belief at the time) without having a emotional relationship like angry and joy and sadness.  It is quite in contrast to how I related to deity before, based on rules, guidelines, do's and don'ts.

I also have realized the value of institutions like the catholic church that I have revolted against and at times ridiculed.  For instance when you say "Another thing you can do is stage an especially lavish festival." it really gives importance to the ceremonial celebration with deity.  Maybe at times these celebrations would help in recalling the beautiful relationships we have with deity when sometimes things get a little difficult.

The first was finding some ways to cope with the physical pain - staying ahead of the pain with medications, deep breathing exercises to focus on something other than the pain, and guided meditations/hypnosis for on pain management. 

Getting on top of the physical pain helped give me the head space to actually process the anger and emotional pain.  Again, I used some different methods to do this - talking to a trusted friend, using guided meditations (one for PTSD actually helped a lot, more so than the ones directly addressing anger), and finding ways to direct the energy into something constructive when I was particularly angry or upset (I crocheted a lot of chemo caps to donate to the cancer centers where I'm a patient).

Thank you so much for your post.  Indeed I am in a lot of emotional and mental pain.  I have been finding it difficult to position myself well in my surroundings; revolting against economic ways to sustain myself and not finding emotional support.  These things cause also other pain such as difficult OCD reactions that are making me worried and upset.  Indeed reducing the pain can make it easier however unfortunately at this point I am not finding a way.  I have sought professional help since a long time but I am not getting to a comfortable situation. I talked to my therapist yesterday and maybe I will be able to go into more detail about how I am feeling but I am worried about myself because of how dark it is and I am worried for my therapist because when things get tough she gets angry and I realize that I might have hit a nerve and I am also making her anxious which is not helpful for either of us.


Also...and this was the hardest part... I had to come to an understanding that being devoted to a deity does not exempt me from going through normal human experiences like pain, illness, and grief.  It is not my deity's job to protect me from life.   She might provide solace, put people in my path who can help, and point me in the direction I need to go, but she is not going to prevent the human stuff from happening.   

This is so true and I believe for me also a little difficult to process.  When we come from a background of religions that say that "God is Great" and "God is omnipotent" then how can we question the infallibility of a deity.  I am realizing more and more that deity is in the realm of the spiritual and maybe there is not a direct connection between that and the physical mundane world.  I wish I have more understanding of this but I believe we put too much undue pressure on deities at times.

Spending time with my niece is a great way to enjoy my time with her and to take care of her.  This helps a lot but also it can get exhausting  :D

If you want my advice, then I say get over yourself.  Stop blaming gods for your problems.  Start controlling your emotions better and go reconnect with your goddess.  If you are willing to betray or abandon your gods in times of distress then I don’t know what to tell you.

I want your advice but it doesn't sound like advice.  "Start controlling your emotions"?  What do you mean?

"If you are willing to betray or abandon your gods in times of distress then I don’t know what to tell you."

This is a recruiting slogan for ISIS (the terrorist organization) ;D ;D ;D ;D?

Thanks anyway for your input Goddess_Ashtara

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 04:35:30 pm »
Thank you for this very resourceful post.  I never knew that people went through elaborate rituals concerning their relationship to deity.  I have been brought up under the illusion that we obey God (the deity of my belief at the time) without having a emotional relationship like angry and joy and sadness.  It is quite in contrast to how I related to deity before, based on rules, guidelines, do's and don'ts.

There's a lot of threads around here that talk about different ways people do things, which might be helpful to browse. (Keeping in mind that not all these approaches fit together well! Or will work for every deity or a given person interacting with a given deity.) There's some in this folder, and some in Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology, and some other places.

Some of my practices and things I've done to figure out how I'm relating to deity are written up on my website (the link will take you to the section with those articles). This one (the third one in the list) might be most relevant to your immediate question here.

There are all kinds of different ways people relate to deities - most of them are usually not 'deity steps in and makes things better regularly'. More often, it's inspiration, encouragement, a direction to go in, but you have to do most of the work yourself.

Maybe at times these celebrations would help in recalling the beautiful relationships we have with deity when sometimes things get a little difficult.


Your profile mentions you identify as Wiccan - in many Wiccan practices, this is one of the things that Sabbats are for, a chance to celebrate and enjoy and draw closer to deities, or explore specific parts of stories associated with them, or their gifts. There are a number of resources out there to help with that - if you'd like some suggestions, let us know what you'd be most interested in and I'm sure people can make some suggestions.

Quote
I talked to my therapist yesterday and maybe I will be able to go into more detail about how I am feeling but I am worried about myself because of how dark it is and I am worried for my therapist because when things get tough she gets angry and I realize that I might have hit a nerve and I am also making her anxious which is not helpful for either of us.

It's probably not helpful, no, but it's your therapists job (very literally!) to figure out how to deal with that for herself. Her training and her professional associations give her resources for dealing with her own stuff, and can also help her figure out what would be helpful for you.

Your job depends a bit on what you're working on in therapy (so usually, 'being honest about what's going on for you, what's working and not working, and what you're okay trying' is part of that) but there might be other things too.

If she gets angry or anxious in ways that make it hard for you to talk to her about what's going on for you and what you need help with, then that's a sign you may need to see if other options would help you (a different therapist, a different model of therapy, additional treatment options, etc.)

Quote
I am realizing more and more that deity is in the realm of the spiritual and maybe there is not a direct connection between that and the physical mundane world.  I wish I have more understanding of this but I believe we put too much undue pressure on deities at times.

Most deities Pagans work with are not expected to be omniscent (all knowing), omnipotent (all powerful) or omnipresent (everwhere). A lot of people - me included - view them as having different abilities than humans (because they're not human), different perspectives (because they aren't limited to a human lifespan), but needing humans for things as much as deities need things.

M'Lady can't help with a lot of things - she's not a deity associated with those things. There are things I do for her, because I get a "You get this technology thing, use it to say this." sometimes.

There are times she's smoothed paths in my life to go in a direction she wants or approves of. But it's not a big fix, because that's not a power she has (any more than human mentors or people who've liked me have been able to make a fix poof into existence: they can help, but they can't produce a job out of nothing, or fix all my health issues, or whatever.) There's a bit more in this thread that might give you some other ideas.

I do believe there are deities who can do big specific stuff - sometimes! But whether they do that for specific people, or when, that's a lot more complicated. It doesn't mean we're wrong or bad or flawed in some way. Historically, most people have gone along without that (and also historically, the Gods taking an interest is not necessarily a comfortable thing at all!)
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 07:00:13 pm »
I want your advice but it doesn't sound like advice.  "Start controlling your emotions"?  What do you mean?

"If you are willing to betray or abandon your gods in times of distress then I don’t know what to tell you."

This is a recruiting slogan for ISIS (the terrorist organization) ;D ;D ;D ;D?

Thanks anyway for your input Goddess_Ashtara


We all experience pain.  How we react to that pain can really say a lot about ourselves.  Lashing out against your goddess in times of distress... dude that’s f’d up.  But it’s also somewhat understandable.  That’s why I say get over this idea that you’ve been abandoned by your goddess and reach out and reconnect.  Strengthen that connection.  Sounds like you might already be doing so.  You know, think about what that goddess means to you and why it’s such a badass thing having that goddess in your life.  And think about that when you are in pain.  Let those thoughts generate feelings of strength, fortitude, and inspiration, rather than ideas of emptiness and loneliness.  Whatever painful situation you are going through, prove to yourself the kind of person you can be.   

« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 07:04:25 pm by Goddess_Ashtara »
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 10:12:23 pm »
We all experience pain.  How we react to that pain can really say a lot about ourselves.  Lashing out against your goddess in times of distress... dude that’s f’d up.

Hmm... something is f'd up here and it's not other people's reactions to their own pain.

Pain is subjective and each of us experiences it differently.. Not everyone is stoic in the face of pain and even those who are have their breaking points. It's not a personal weakness to react with anger to being in pain, especially when that pain is prolonged or extreme. 

Nor is it a character flaw to lash out at those we think have failed us in those moments of pain. It's a normal human reaction to express anger and frustration when we're under extreme duress. Compounding this human tendency to express ourselves when under stress, strong pain medications can also make controlling emotions more difficult.

A person in physical pain may also be undergoing high levels of psychological or emotional pain, dealing with depression, experiencing PTSD, or trying to emotionally cope with having a potentially terminal medical condition. 

So, maybe, next time, try to understand what someone is actually going through instead of declaring that their reaction is f'd up.
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 12:49:39 am »
So, maybe, next time, try to understand what someone is actually going through instead of declaring that their reaction is f'd up.

We all do respond differently when placed under stress or trouble. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're right or wrong...although, looking back from the long view, we may recognize that some responses were ultimately helpful and some were not. It just means that we're human, and that we all do have room to grow.
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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2018, 11:51:01 am »
Some of my practices and things I've done to figure out how I'm relating to deity are written up on my website (the link will take you to the section with those articles). This one (the third one in the list) might be most relevant to your immediate question here.

Thank you Jenett and I found the links really valuable.


So, maybe, next time, try to understand what someone is actually going through instead of declaring that their reaction is f'd up.

Aisling I agree very much with your post.

We all do respond differently when placed under stress or trouble. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're right or wrong...although, looking back from the long view, we may recognize that some responses were ultimately helpful and some were not. It just means that we're human, and that we all do have room to grow.

It's true.  I think we have different capacities to deal with things and I am going through a difficult period right now where things can look different.

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 12:21:26 pm »

If you need something more extreme, you could try punishing the deity, .

There is also reference to doing something similar in the Greek Magical Papyri where Hekate is effectively threatened with a curse if she doesn't perform for the caster.

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 05:49:05 pm »
There is also reference to doing something similar in the Greek Magical Papyri where Hekate is effectively threatened with a curse if she doesn't perform for the caster.

Also, isn't there a thing where people bury a saint's statue? Was it St John?

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Re: Angry at Deity...
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 06:32:29 pm »
Also, isn't there a thing where people bury a saint's statue? Was it St John?

Burying St. Joseph upside down (i.e. head down) is a classic thing for selling a home.
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The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru, Tana

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling, Bob, Catja, Fausta, Sperran, Steve

Cauldron Council:
Emma-Eldritch, Everfool, Jubes, Kelly, Koi, Melamphoros, Ocelot, Phouka, Sashapablo, Star

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall