General/Non-Specific: A sign?

[KLee]

Hi!
This might sound silly, I really don't know.
Few years ago when I summoned Archangel Raphael, a strange white bird feather appeared in my room from nowhere. I didn't know how it got there. Then, few days ago again I started a ritual and summoned St.Raphael every morning, for healing purposes. And today, a bird feather appeared again in my room. There was no way that it could got there -- at least in my comprehension. This never have happened when I was not engaged in summoning angels. Considering the feather appearing twice, at the right time, could this be some sign that my summoning ritual is working?
Thanks.

[Dynes Hysbys]

Hi!
This might sound silly, I really don't know.
Few years ago when I summoned Archangel Raphael, a strange white bird feather appeared in my room from nowhere. I didn't know how it got there. Then, few days ago again I started a ritual and summoned St.Raphael every morning, for healing purposes. And today, a bird feather appeared again in my room. There was no way that it could got there -- at least in my comprehension. This never have happened when I was not engaged in summoning angels. Considering the feather appearing twice, at the right time, could this be some sign that my summoning ritual is working?
Thanks.

Maybe but I would always discount mundane reality first -  for example do you have any feather pillows or cushions in the room?

Generally though if an archangel shows up there is no doubt at all about it.

[KLee]

do you have any feather pillows or cushions in the room?

There's nothing feathery in my room. And this happens only when I'm doing the ritual.

Generally though if an archangel shows up there is no doubt at all about it.

I have doubts, cuz I don't know if this feathery thing is a sign from Angels, else some other spiritual thing. Though what I definitely am sure about is, this is not normal.

[Jenett]

Few years ago when I summoned Archangel Raphael, a strange white bird feather appeared in my room from nowhere. I didn't know how it got there. Then, few days ago again I started a ritual and summoned St.Raphael every morning, for healing purposes. And today, a bird feather appeared again in my room. There was no way that it could got there -- at least in my comprehension. This never have happened when I was not engaged in summoning angels. Considering the feather appearing twice, at the right time, could this be some sign that my summoning ritual is working?

So, something happening once is just a single data point. Something happening twice is somewhat better (you can get a line out of two points!) but not a lot more conclusive.

When I'm looking at things like this, here's how I evaluate them:

1) How many data points do I have

As above, one point isn't really anything useful. Two begins to be more useful. Five is a lot more clear. Every time I do X, Y happens is even more so. So with only two points, I wouldn't put tons of weight on this yet, but I would pay attention to future occurrences.

2) Is this unusual for the setting?

How unusual is the event that might be a sign? Going outside and seeing birds that live in your area is not particularly unusual, even if it might not be common for them to be in my yard. Even seeing an owl (like I did a fortnight ago, the first time I'm sure I've seen one in the wild!) isn't that weird, though it was very cool.

Seeing birds who aren't normally present, or behaving in a particular uncommon way - that's a lot more directly a sign. (The ancients used to also ask for specific numbers. It might not be that weird to see some number of crows, but seeing three specifically the next day is a lot more unusual and specific.)

So, seeing a feather when you don't have feather bedding, no down coat, etc. is unusual, but there are potentially other ways to track in a feather. How unusual the feather is might also be informative.

3) Did you ask for a sign?

Asking for a sign (and something specific, unlikely, but reasonably plausible - seeing pigs fly isn't plausible. Seeing a hawk maybe is. Usually if you ask for a sign it's related to the thing you're asking for the sign for) is usually a more reliable way to figure out if this thing is relevant.

It's possible the feather showing up is a sign - but a sign of something else. Some other deity/being/event, in other words. When it's totally out of context, and there isn't a direct connection, it's a lot harder to figure out how to interpret it.

4) What other indications do you have?

I tend to think signs (even if you ask for them) are not a fantastic way to figure out if something is working. They're really imprecise.

If it's working, you should have other data points. Like - does it make you feel the way it would if it were working? Do you have experiences (in meditation/ritual/your daily life/dreams/whatever) that give you information about it working? Does it help you live a better life in the day to day present? Does it provide comfort (or whatever you are going for?)

If I'm not sure, that's a time I go to divination or more focused meditation work to figure out what's going on. Both of those have more context than 'did a feather show up randomly, and what does it mean'.

[arete]

Hi!
This might sound silly, I really don't know.
Few years ago when I summoned Archangel Raphael, a strange white bird feather appeared in my room from nowhere. I didn't know how it got there. Then, few days ago again I started a ritual and summoned St.Raphael every morning, for healing purposes. And today, a bird feather appeared again in my room. There was no way that it could got there -- at least in my comprehension. This never have happened when I was not engaged in summoning angels. Considering the feather appearing twice, at the right time, could this be some sign that my summoning ritual is working?
Thanks.

I don't see why not. Angels are supposed to communicate with people, if God permits.

[Caleb Oak]

I don't see why not. Angels are supposed to communicate with people, if God permits.

I am just confused why Pagans would even try to call upon angels, most seem very anti Abrahamic. 

[arete]

I am just confused why Pagans would even try to call upon angels, most seem very anti Abrahamic. 

Yep, this is true for Pagans with capital ''P''. On the other hand, pagans with lower ''p'' may include Abrahamics too. I do.

[Caleb Oak]

Yep, this is true for Pagans with capital ''P''. On the other hand, pagans with lower ''p'' may include Abrahamics too. I do.

Thanks that helps.

Can you explain the difference?

You have made me curious.

[Jenett]

I am just confused why Pagans would even try to call upon angels, most seem very anti Abrahamic. 

While angels are most commonly discussed in religions of the Book, the idea of messengers (often with wings!) from other deities, cosmologies, and belief systems is not uncommon.

(I've had From Gabriel to Lucifer: A Cultural History of Angels by Valery Rees on my to-be-read pile for a while as research for something fictional, but she starts with some of the winged figures who show up in in places like Babylonian palaces, and Etruscan tombs...)

[Caleb Oak]

While angels are most commonly discussed in religions of the Book, the idea of messengers (often with wings!) from other deities, cosmologies, and belief systems is not uncommon.

(I've had From Gabriel to Lucifer: A Cultural History of Angels by Valery Rees on my to-be-read pile for a while as research for something fictional, but she starts with some of the winged figures who show up in in places like Babylonian palaces, and Etruscan tombs...)

Yes, true, winged figures are very common, Nemesis, the Hellenic messenger of vengeance for example, or the Valkyries from Norse lore and the word angel comes from the Latin Angelus, meaning messenger.

But KLee mentions he summoned the Archangel Raphael, calling him St.Raphael, and that is clearly Abrahamic.   

[Eastling]

Thanks that helps.

Can you explain the difference?

You have made me curious.

There isn't really a clear-cut difference.

Some people may consider that their paganism excludes Abrahamic faiths as a matter of definition; they may or may not choose to use the capital P in Pagans. Others may freely mix Christian, Jewish, or Islamic elements with their paganism or Paganism. They too may call themselves Pagans or pagans (or neopagans, even).

It's worth noting that the "Abrahamic faiths" are not the only religions that do not really fall under the umbrella of modern paganism, which tends to refer to a number of widely-varied belief systems that sprung up in the late nineteenth and through the twentieth century and beyond (although they have roots as far back as the Renaissance in some cases). There are any number of older non-Abrahamic faiths all over the world that developed centuries to millennia ago quite independently from Christianity and related faiths (Hinduism, Shinto, Buddhism, and a number of indigenous spiritual paths, for example) whose members do not consider themselves pagan.

I went to a pagan gathering once where one member had brought a Native friend out of curiosity; this friend wound up having to explain to the group that although she did believe in a non-Christian "earth-based spirituality" as per her people's tradition, socially she did not consider her faith "pagan."

[Caleb Oak]

There isn't really a clear-cut difference.

Some people may consider that their paganism excludes Abrahamic faiths as a matter of definition; they may or may not choose to use the capital P in Pagans. Others may freely mix Christian, Jewish, or Islamic elements with their paganism or Paganism. They too may call themselves Pagans or pagans (or neopagans, even).

It's worth noting that the "Abrahamic faiths" are not the only religions that do not really fall under the umbrella of modern paganism, which tends to refer to a number of widely-varied belief systems that sprung up in the late nineteenth and through the twentieth century and beyond (although they have roots as far back as the Renaissance in some cases). There are any number of older non-Abrahamic faiths all over the world that developed centuries to millennia ago quite independently from Christianity and related faiths (Hinduism, Shinto, Buddhism, and a number of indigenous spiritual paths, for example) whose members do not consider themselves pagan.

I went to a pagan gathering once where one member had brought a Native friend out of curiosity; this friend wound up having to explain to the group that although she did believe in a non-Christian "earth-based spirituality" as per her people's tradition, socially she did not consider her faith "pagan."

Good explenation. 

[arete]

Thanks that helps.

Can you explain the difference?

You have made me curious.

In my understanding, ''Pagan'' is a religion that has some guidelines (polytheism, magic, nature reverence, counterAbrahamic).
On the other hand, ''pagan'' is Latin word for villager, the Christians used as an insult. ''pagans'' may be anything. I am panreligious, I don't reject Abrahamics, and I call myself ''pagan'' (villager).

[Caleb Oak]

In my understanding, ''Pagan'' is a religion that has some guidelines (polytheism, magic, nature reverence, counterAbrahamic).
On the other hand, ''pagan'' is Latin word for villager, the Christians used as an insult. ''pagans'' may be anything. I am panreligious, I don't reject Abrahamics, and I call myself ''pagan'' (villager).

Interesting, i thought Paganism was more of an umbrella term, and that the polytheism, magic, nature reverence, counter-Abrahamic thing was Wicca. 

[Aster Breo]

Interesting, i thought Paganism was more of an umbrella term, and that the polytheism, magic, nature reverence, counter-Abrahamic thing was Wicca. 

Yes, "pagan", whether capitalized or not, is an umbrella term that covers a very wide variety of religions / spiritualities.

There is no one Pagan (or pagan) religion.

There are many, many, many Pagan/pagan religions.

Not all of them are polytheistic. Not all of them include magic. Not all of them include nature reverence. Not all of them are counter-Abrahamic. Some include one or more of those things.

On TC, we use this definition of "pagan" (capitalized or not): someone who is not Judeo/Christian/Islamic (sometimes referred to as religions of the Book) AND who self-identifies as pagan. Whether capitalized or not.

There are also many kinds of Wicca, which is just one branch of paganism. Some Wiccan traditions have been around for decades, others are newer, some have a lot of initiates, others are practiced by a single person. They are not all the same.

There are also many kinds of witchcraft. All Wicca includes witchcraft (I think), but not all witchcraft is performed by Wiccans.

And not all magic is witchcraft.

It's a complex and confusing world.

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