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Author Topic: What's the view on equality?  (Read 27451 times)

Redfaery

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #480 on: September 23, 2015, 11:15:02 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;180313
I've just finished the book, but I'm not sure what you mean about the conclusion.
Giskard, the mechanical-looking robot turned out to be far more complex than Daneel and Jander, the androids. I seem to recall that his brain broke the barrier, so to speak.

It's been 15 years since I read the book though. So I could be misremembering.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Juniperberry

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #481 on: September 23, 2015, 12:16:33 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;180314
Giskard, the mechanical-looking robot turned out to be far more complex than Daneel and Jander, the androids. I seem to recall that his brain broke the barrier, so to speak.

It's been 15 years since I read the book though. So I could be misremembering.

 
Ah. Yeah, in an accidental chance of programming Giskard gained telepathic abilities, and used that ability to his advantage in obeying the Three Laws.

Earlier in the book, two characters had discussed the legend of a telepathic robot who was rendered inactive by it's programmer through the application of an unsolvable contradiction of Laws concerning it's telepathy.

Since Giskard was aware of the legend, he kept his telepathic abilities a secret from his programmer. If not, he too would have been rendered inactive through "roblock". The Third Law of Robotics is that a robot must protect it's own existence as long as it does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. By hiding his telepathy, he was better able to follow the First and Second Law, whereas admitting his telepathy would have conflicted with all Three.  

So Giskard didn't break the Godel barrier, though he did have unique abilities.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Redfaery

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #482 on: September 23, 2015, 12:23:41 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;180316
Ah. Yeah, in an accidental chance of programming Giskard gained telepathic abilities, and used that ability to his advantage in obeying the Three Laws.

Earlier in the book, two characters had discussed the legend of a telepathic robot who was rendered inactive by it's programmer through the application of an unsolvable contradiction of Laws concerning it's telepathy.

Since Giskard was aware of the legend, he kept his telepathic abilities a secret from his programmer. If not, he too would have been rendered inactive through "roblock". The Third Law of Robotics is that a robot must protect it's own existence as long as it does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. By hiding his telepathy, he was better able to follow the First and Second Law, whereas admitting his telepathy would have conflicted with all Three.  

So Giskard didn't break the Godel barrier, though he did have unique abilities.

 
Aaaaaaaah.....now the ending makes SOOOO much more sense to me. I read it when I was like, 16. So there was a lot I didn't get.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Juniperberry

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #483 on: September 23, 2015, 12:41:12 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;180317
Aaaaaaaah.....now the ending makes SOOOO much more sense to me. I read it when I was like, 16. So there was a lot I didn't get.


After your first comment, I kept reading the book waiting for Plainclothesman Baley to find out that he was actually an advanced humanoid robot that was not bound by the Three Laws to the extent that he couldn't be "roblocked", and had therefore disproved the Godel Theorem.

It didn't help matters that the top roboticist kept hinting that he was studying the human brain for the advancement of a C/Fe culture, and that his adversary was trying to create a robot society that could reproduce and become generational. I was sure that Baley's Earth, with it's underground Cities and mechanical expressway strips, was actually a manufacturing warehouse for robots, and that his fear of nature and the chaotic Outside was the result of being a mechanical being of complete Order. :p
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 12:42:43 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Redfaery

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #484 on: September 23, 2015, 12:43:16 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;180318
After your first comment, I kept reading the book waiting for Plainclothesman Baley to find out that he was actually an advanced humanoid robot that was not bound by the Three Laws to the extent that he couldn't be "roblocked", and had therefore disproved the Godel Theorem.

It didn't help matters that the top roboticist kept hinting that he was studying the human brain for the advancement of a C/Fe culture, and that his adversary was trying to create a robot society that could reproduce and become generational. I was sure that Baley's Earth, with it's underground Cities and mechanical expressway strips, was actually a manufacturing warehouse for robots, and that his fear of nature and the chaotic Outside was the result of being a mechanical being of complete Order. :p

 
That honestly would have been a much better ending. :ange:
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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